New Beneteau First 36
- Thread starter Swimsailor
- Start date
Monkey
Super Anarchist
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Monkey
Super Anarchist
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Hadn’t thought of that. We’re only rated for PHRF and ORC though. We’ll avoid running aground until IRC catches on around here.
TwoLegged
Super Anarchist
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Hey, relax! I am sure that everyone is very pleased for you that your Bendytoy is one of those where the keel hasn't fallen off .... yet.
G
Guest
Guest
Personally I am so excited at this breakthrough design, in a sea of white production boats its stands out in the crowd. Any true sailing connoisseur will recognise it from a great distance.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
oops. lol. and yeah, sticking two wheels on it does seem to push it into the 'heavier' and 'cruisier' design space. pretty sure this will end up north of 11,500 lbs..
TwoLegged
Super Anarchist
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George Dewey
Super Anarchist
I don't know much about the 3300 or 3600, but I moved from a 36.7 to a J/111. My guess would be that the answer to your question would be in how well this boat sails and how fast it is as a more cruisy racer. The 36.7 was 13,000+ pounds, and was fairly comfortable but the ginormous wheel and raised traveler made getting around the helm and cockpit difficult. The bunks below got too narrow at the forward half. It was too tender for both short handed cruising and ocean racing with a SI of about 112. And of course, overlapping headsails and sym spinns. It has some plusses, like the huge port quarter berth, but overall I think it cruises okay and races just okay, although it can be made to race well. It did win N2B one year and other big stuff.
The J/111, well there is nothing cruisy about it. I found that I was not cruising much and wanted asyms, non-overlapping headsails, a bigger cockpit and more speed / fun yet I do sometimes miss some of the comfort. If this boat can approach the performance of a J/111 but make the boat easier to sail as a shorthanded cruiser and more comfortable racer, they might have a winner. Hopefully it will tick the boxes to qualify as an ocean racer (things like the toe rail, stability, pulpit dimensions, all that kind of stuff). Also I think Benes tend to be more affordable than other boats, at least on initial purchase.
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Kristian Seascape
Member
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Gents, some details that needs to be taken into account. Beneteau put the 36 project in hibernation in 2019 after they realized they cannot make make it performant and lucrative enough to pass the corporate decision gate. Fast forward to 2021... after the powers to be decided that Seascape must leave the Group, 36 project was part of divorce settlement. Seascape was allowed to do what it can to make it ... simpler, lighter, more ergonomic, while Beneteau was and still is helping with its accum,ulated expertise, from purhcase chain to hard earned lessons regarding safety. It is no surprise that they have some very strict rules regarding the keel attachment due to the past experiences.
Structure of the boat was completely redesigned by PURE Team New Zealand (Giovanni Belgrano & Co), with emphasis on making it lighter, simpler and less ... volume production adapted. We took quite some effort to remove redundant parts and structure, limit the number of options and do whatever can be done in this limited time period to make the boat lighter. For a modern planning boat, I firmly believe that making a stiff an light boat is the key to performance.
Where will this take us? I hope we will be able to make a boat that looks classic but has a distinct wow factor once you have a chance to sail it. After all, a while ago, Scot wrote on these pages "bent over and from behind , they all look the same..."
Structure of the boat was completely redesigned by PURE Team New Zealand (Giovanni Belgrano & Co), with emphasis on making it lighter, simpler and less ... volume production adapted. We took quite some effort to remove redundant parts and structure, limit the number of options and do whatever can be done in this limited time period to make the boat lighter. For a modern planning boat, I firmly believe that making a stiff an light boat is the key to performance.
Where will this take us? I hope we will be able to make a boat that looks classic but has a distinct wow factor once you have a chance to sail it. After all, a while ago, Scot wrote on these pages "bent over and from behind , they all look the same..."
Roleur
Super Anarchist
As evidence read the first page of the J/111 thread in J/Boat Anarchy. To say the peanut gallery nailed it would be an understatement. Oh, wait... Except they missed on the performance and sales. Does anything else matter?
Might sound like a basic question but are you happy with how the boat has turned out? I was fortunate to take a Seascape/First 24se out sailing a couple of times and it made me want one badly, even if half the feeling of the 24 has transferred to the 36 I would probably love it too
oioi
Super Anarchist
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Hi Kristian
Have seascape and beneteau parted company? You talk about a divorce? Are there going to be new seascapes? I remember being in your offices outside Ljubljana looking at some of the prep work for this boat back in 2018. All the plans for what you saw as the competition were on the walls.
Good luck with what you do next.
freewheelin
Anarchist
Our little Bene did pretty well against these big budget boats in the Around Long Island Regatta. 2nd in the spinnaker fleet, and our keel stayed on the whole time
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
So, I ran this through my de-jargonification software (its still in beta though, so expect flaws
"Beneteau put the 36 project in hibernation in 2019 after they realized they cannot make make it performant and lucrative enough to pass the corporate decision gate."
- corporate suits couldn't dumb it down enough to be profitable.
"Fast forward to 2021... after the powers to be decided that Seascape must leave the Group, 36 project was part of divorce settlement."
- same set of suits couldn't dumb down Seascape enough to be profitable.
"Seascape was allowed to do what it can to make it ... simpler, lighter, more ergonomic, while Beneteau was and still is helping with its accum,ulated expertise, from purhcase chain to hard earned lessons regarding safety. It is no surprise that they have some very strict rules regarding the keel attachment due to the past experiences."
- some of the suits still sail though, so not completely abandoning the cool kids at Seascape.
"Structure of the boat was completely redesigned by PURE Team New Zealand (Giovanni Belgrano & Co), with emphasis on making it lighter, simpler and less ... volume production adapted."
- better than a B boat, but yes more expensive.
"We took quite some effort to remove redundant parts and structure, limit the number of options and do whatever can be done in this limited time period to make the boat lighter."
- the suits are cutting us loose in just a few months, so we gotta act quick.
"For a modern planning boat, I firmly believe that making a stiff an light boat is the key to performance. Where will this take us? I hope we will be able to make a boat that looks classic but has a distinct wow factor once you have a chance to sail it."
- after all, we all like to sail.
"After all, a while ago, Scot wrote on these pages "bent over and from behind , they all look the same...""
- umm. buy an ad?
George Dewey
Super Anarchist
I would think that would be a big advantage, although if you have a symmetric boat and point the bow at the downwind mark, especially if you're on the last leg, wouldn't dropping the keel be a big help? I'm told they can make a lot of drag.
freewheelin
Anarchist
I suppose it depends on the length of the downwind leg. The reduction in drag would need to offset the added displacement from the water gushing in the giant hole in the bottom!