New boat for solo/double for inshore, Vic-Maui, Transpac and cruising

[Black Jack]

Are you buying to win or are you racing to sail? With that kind of money - I would charter a Grand Soleil 44 configured for race/cruising to see if it fits. If it does then go buy one.

The more I sail and solo race, the more I realize I would rather be comfortable while being fast. The other boats mentioned are really fast but at the cost of harsher and quite spartan rides in their race configuration. Not the kind of boats where I would want to spend time cruising if that is 40 percent of the time. Short handed racing and cruising over the age of 50 in a production boat should be a pleasure rather than seen as a personal endurance test. As you already know sailboat racing is a sport of tearing up dollars. Sailing short handed is just a reflection of what we learned while on the water and offshoot of how you got here and a statement of personal success. Yeah, there will be some blowback on the boat, why theirs works better, faster and my comfort comment but who fucking cares, they aren't my real sailing friends anyway.

I also am in my now late 50s, sailed all my life, now I see all this sailing and racing as part of my journey of discovering who I am while sailing not the minor victories of an event that no one but a tiny few other competing sailing boneheads gives a shit about. I also find the time I spend on my boat is quality time and life is uncertain with ups and downs with my own health, family and career demands that can change my direction at any time. If stats count - the best stats are made up in number of fine friendships and connections in what we pursue and the moments we can share our joy of sailing fast and coming home in comfort safely. As for winning, i think already won many time even if I do come in last. And as far as my boat is concerned, I only need to impress myself while sailing or looking at it from the dock. I can't help but take a page out of Stan and Sally Honeys Cal40 page - sail fast, make friends and win when you can. A good boat is only a tool to get you there.

 

[dreamingwet]

Are you buying to win or are you racing to sail? With that kind of money - I would charter a Grand Soleil 44 configured for race/cruising to see if it fits. If it does then go buy one.

The more I sail and solo race, the more I realize I would rather be comfortable while being fast. The other boats mentioned are really fast but at the cost of harsher and quite spartan rides in their race configuration. Not the kind of boats where I would want to spend time cruising if that is 40 percent of the time. Short handed racing and cruising over the age of 50 in a production boat should be a pleasure rather than seen as a personal endurance test. As you already know sailboat racing is a sport of tearing up dollars. Sailing short handed is just a reflection of what we learned while on the water and offshoot of how you got here and a statement of personal success. Yeah, there will be some blowback on the boat, why theirs works better, faster and my comfort comment but who fucking cares, they aren't my real sailing friends anyway.

I also am in my now late 50s, sailed all my life, now I see all this sailing and racing as part of my journey of discovering who I am while sailing not the minor victories of an event that no one but a tiny few other competing sailing boneheads gives a shit about. I also find the time I spend on my boat is quality time and life is uncertain with ups and downs with my own health, family and career demands that can change my direction at any time. If stats count - the best stats are made up in number of fine friendships and connections in what we pursue and the moments we can share our joy of sailing fast and coming home in comfort safely. As for winning, i think already won many time even if I do come in last. And as far as my boat is concerned, I only need to impress myself while sailing or looking at it from the dock. I can't help but take a page out of Stan and Sally Honeys Cal40 page - sail fast, make friends and win when you can. A good boat is only a tool to get you there.

Literally it is a combo of both, I do agree that if anything at my age a little extra comfort would be good, but I also want to go really fast. This past battle with cancer made me realize that I need to squeeze everything out of what I have left and nothing brings a bigger smile than going 18Knts+. Today I was fantasizing going south after a transpac to visit some friends in NZL and Papa New Guinea
I looked to the GS44 and it is a beautiful boat but it is more than I can handle. $450-500K is the absolutely max out of the door And the GS44 is close to $700k out of the door with a good set of sails, all up B&G 5000 or NKE, taxes and commissioning.
I rather buy a little less and be able to keep it in top shape. My years of heavy money making are almost over too.

 

[munt]

Thanks, Black Jack. That was a refreshingly great statement. If going fast in comfort is the main goal you could get a very nice trimaran for under 500k.

 

[dreamingwet]

Check it the Aeolos P45
Apologies P45

Contact Hans Genthe who produces the P30.
As far as I know, the P45 is a concept based on the P30.

It seems to fit the bill and the price might be interesting.
Probably a long lead time though

I contacted Hans, and although the boat looks like a perfect fit, by the time I add the must have we are in the $650K plus and still missing the sails.

 

[solosailor]

If going fast in comfort is the main goal you could get a very nice trimaran for under 500k.

And race by yourself.

 

[dreamingwet]

And race by yourself.

I am only interested in monohulls.

 

[Black Jack]

Food for thought -

A friend of mine recently sold his Schumacher quarter tonner Summertime Dream (which he raced well last season) and bought an exceptionally valued (30K) in near mint condition custom Farr 38 which is nearly race ready. He is now prepping for next years SSS Transpac and goal of sailing of continuing on to the south Pacific and South East Asia. The boat is nearly everything folks like us would want for racer/cruiser. He is thrilled with the performance and luxury that is in rare form nowadays. When out for a sail, the Farr 38 proved to be faster than a Santa Cruz 50 we challenged up and down wind in the bay. Nobody had to sit on the rail when it went to weather and the boat screaming down wind under white sails with little helm play. The ballast being low and helm remained neutral even when the wind kicked up proved it was a winner where we are. Under an A-sail or symetrical, I could see this boat earning a top finish in either a crewed ocean race or shorthanded/solo.

I can't see spending more that 100k on a killer racer come comfortable cruiser and that would include a haul out, keel bolt check, new sails and touch up. for less than 60k, Guillaume and his Farr could very well spank a lot of boats in his class in most major races including spartan boats like the P30, gutted Express 37s or much loved Cal 40s going down wind to the islands. We will know his results in the next year(s) to come. I think he made a great choice and got it for a bargain.

 

[dreamingwet]

I

Food for thought -

A friend of mine recently sold his Schumacher quarter tonner Summertime Dream (which he raced well last season) and bought an exceptionally valued (30K) in near mint condition custom Farr 38 which is nearly race ready. He is now prepping for next years SSS Transpac and goal of sailing of continuing on to the south Pacific and South East Asia. The boat is nearly everything folks like us would want for racer/cruiser. He is thrilled with the performance and luxury that is in rare form nowadays. When out for a sail, the Farr 38 proved to be faster than a Santa Cruz 50 we challenged up and down wind in the bay. Nobody had to sit on the rail when it went to weather and the boat screaming down wind under white sails with little helm play. The ballast being low and helm remained neutral even when the wind kicked up proved it was a winner where we are. Under an A-sail or symetrical, I could see this boat earning a top finish in either a crewed ocean race or shorthanded/solo.

I can't see spending more that 100k on a killer racer come comfortable cruiser and that would include a haul out, keel bolt check, new sails and touch up. for less than 60k, Guillaume and his Farr could very well spank a lot of boats in his class in most major races including spartan boats like the P30, gutted Express 37s or much loved Cal 40s going down wind to the islands. We will know his results in the next year(s) to come. I think he made a great choice and got it for a bargain.

I hear you and I am flexible to new ideas/concepts, this is why I asked for ideas here.
Your friend is very lucky to have found the boat he likes, I am sure that I will get mine. I just started the process of re-educating myself on the different options available since I last sailed.

 

[Roleur]

FWIW, Express 37's have quite nice interiors. I know a couple that lived aboard one in So Cal, then sailed the boat to Hawaii and lived on it there. There are 3 of them racing to Hawaii next week. Also, the Farr 38 and Express 37 rate almost exactly the same and weigh almost exactly the same. More than one Express 37 has raced to Hawaii singlehanded too.

Alas, "could very well spank a lot of boats"... Well, we all COULD very well spank a lot of boats, but the proof is in the results. Otherwise, it is just talk.

Lastly, Farr 38's have been racing in the Bay for 40 years, by some very good sailors. They are hardly an unknown quantity. A PHRF of 75 factors in all of that history. The Express 37 rates 72 and has as many racing hours in the Bay as perhaps any PHRF boat around. Also, not an unknown quantity. Probably a good matchup downwind to Hawaii, where the best sailor (not the boat) would win.

 

[Ex Machina]

Was it a 1970s far 38 ? Or an early 2000s ?

 

[dreamingwet]

I sailed a E37 with 30-35Knts in the San Fran bay, it was fun but not the type of boat I would enjoy, I would rather have a JPK11.80 or even a SF3600 which I sailed both.
The Riptides 35s are much closer to what I am looking for but I would have to see the interior to get a feel if my partner and I could spend 15-20 days in it, add a desalinator (?), fridge, stove, and other "essential" gear to do long passages.

 

[Roleur]

A JPK 11.80 is an awesome choice, but all but impossible to get new or used. Unless you are French.

 

[Jambalaya]

You have some pretty clear parameters and budget which is a great place to start. Personally I would look at the events you want to do and take a look at which designs are competing. 40+ ft and genuine planing boats … really that’s Class 40. I can’t think of too many real planning boats at that size or larger which are “comfortable”. Again personally I’d be tempted to drop planning and get a fast 40+ boat with good stability and mode it cruise vs race as required. If you are willing to go smaller then a SF3300 is a very nice shorthanded package. The smaller boats will have lighter loads too.

 

[dreamingwet]

A JPK 11.80 is an awesome choice, but all but impossible to get new or used. Unless you are French.

I have been in touch JPK, and I can get one but still not exactly what I want…maybe I need to compromise or just go custom.
In the case of going for an non planing boat the question would be a JPK11.8 or a J121?

@Jambalaya my low limit is 36, I am in my 50s trying to have a lot of fun with some comfort and 20+ days in a 33‘ is not much fun and would seriously affect where I can go down in the SP.

 

[Black Jack]

@dreamingwet - What boat do you currently own and regularly sail? Do where do you want to keep this new to you boat in Seattle and what is your monthly budget for that. I only note this because something like a j121 even used does push your budget with new sails and personal changes to close above 450k not including delivery. a 900 a month slip fee and yard foot multipliers could break one's budget in a few short years.

Currently my own boat(s) are old CCA/IOR 30.7' racers and for 95 percent of my life are just fine. although older than many here's parents, they/she is a dream to sail and I can outpoint nearly everyone on the race course and with a right set I solo surf very well. I too have a couple of bucket list races to do on my own but only a few exclude me from participating in the regattas due to feet on deck. As for suffering 20 days on sea on her, why not? A little suffering is part of the journey. She will be easier and cheaper to put on a ship and send her back if I was inclined. In the past few years, I got heavily involved in a complete redo of a 1D35, a fine, fast boat for crew racing which is prepped for the Transpac but found out that she was not for me even though I thought I wanted it to be; life lessons I didn't see coming even though I was a fit 53 y.o. pretending to be 35.

I too am doing my research carefully as I am planning my next boat buy which i hope is a new construction. I am heading to Europe in a few weeks and will be visiting boat builders in Germany, Holland, France, and Croatia on another self guided motorbike tour. Maybe I won't find the right one and keep what I have for a while longer not denting my meager hard earned portfolio. The Newport to Bermuda race isn't going to end anytime soon. Yeah, I might take one of those old Farr i suggested to just compete and that would leave me with a lot of reserves to do a lot of other wonderful things in sailing and life.

 

[solosailor]

Are you renting or buying the moto? How long you going for? Sounds like a dream trip.... Summer Europe, boatbuilders, & motorcycle !

 

[Black Jack]

Are you renting or buying the moto? How long you going for? Sounds like a dream trip.... Summer Europe, boatbuilders, & motorcycle !

I keep my old California plated 1983 BMW R100CS sports tourer with hard bags in Heidelberg Germany. I go and ride once to twice a year around Europe. I usually solo ride for 2 or 3 weeks at a time riding 2500 miles over that period staying in Gashofs, 2 and 3 star hotels with a very nice hotel every 5 days. I get 50 mpg at 68 mph meaning that it is economical and parking is a simple, close up to where you want to be. Sometimes my cute wife meets me places in the south of France, Paris, Berlin or Lake Como but not usually. We will do a rare couple hour putt if she does before she does her own thing meeting me at the next big stop. This is more for me. Ride, eat and drink in places that care about culture, food and life. Don't like the weather ride north or south, to the Med coast for a swim or sit on high ice in the mountains on the same day. Of all the things i own and do, this has been one of the best ever. I have ultimate freedom and make my schedule as I want day by day - riding as much or little to make the point. It is head clearing and amazing every moment. It is better than sailing over a desert of ocean to go somewhere, the moments of solitude are broken regularly, met by warm smiling faces, a beautiful sight, a nice restful sleep and exclusive community connection. Nothing beats a motorcycle or bicycle including a million dollar fast sailboat when exploring this world or living life.

I have actually to 2 rides planned this year. The boat yard visits this summer are going to make it really work soon plus the route will be fun to explore. The second ride for mid September is more for riding the Alps and Dolomites with maybe friends. It gets colder but the shoulder season makes for less crowds.

I am working on and painting my other Mull 30, Lively Lady. Once it is close to finished, I will post and sell her, freeing me up to pay for and ride this first one.

 

[dreamingwet]

@dreamingwet - What boat do you currently own and regularly sail? Do where do you want to keep this new to you boat in Seattle and what is your monthly budget for that. I only note this because something like a j121 even used does push your budget with new sails and personal changes to close above 450k not including delivery. a 900 a month slip fee and yard foot multipliers could break one's budget in a few short years.

Currently my own boat(s) are old CCA/IOR 30.7' racers and for 95 percent of my life are just fine. although older than many here's parents, they/she is a dream to sail and I can outpoint nearly everyone on the race course and with a right set I solo surf very well. I too have a couple of bucket list races to do on my own but only a few exclude me from participating in the regattas due to feet on deck. As for suffering 20 days on sea on her, why not? A little suffering is part of the journey. She will be easier and cheaper to put on a ship and send her back if I was inclined. In the past few years, I got heavily involved in a complete redo of a 1D35, a fine, fast boat for crew racing which is prepped for the Transpac but found out that she was not for me even though I thought I wanted it to be; life lessons I didn't see coming even though I was a fit 53 y.o. pretending to be 35.

I too am doing my research carefully as I am planning my next boat buy which i hope is a new construction. I am heading to Europe in a few weeks and will be visiting boat builders in Germany, Holland, France, and Croatia on another self guided motorbike tour. Maybe I won't find the right one and keep what I have for a while longer not denting my meager hard earned portfolio. The Newport to Bermuda race isn't going to end anytime soon. Yeah, I might take one of those old Farr i suggested to just compete and that would leave me with a lot of reserves to do a lot of other wonderful things in sailing and life.

Hello Black Jack, I don't currently own a boat, I had an 8 year long battle with cancer which took me out of commission for months at the time and sometimes to different countries; so I sold my ClubSwan 42 which I heavily modified for solo/double. Before it I had an open40, a Farr 30, Farr 40, a Figaro1 and a custom Frers 38 all which I raced in Europe.

The one thing I learned a LONG time ago, is to buy a boat that is 10feet smaller than what I think my maintenance budget can handle, and it always worked just great.

Nothing worse to me than buying a boat and not being able to improve it or at the bare least maintain it, my monthly budget is around $3K, plus $20-$25K a year, hopefully I will not need all that but that is what I can sustain for the foreseeable future taking into account the current world financial situation.

I am currently in Seattle WA and plan to have the boat in Bainbridge Island, or Shilshole.

 

[dreamingwet]

@dreamingwet - What boat do you currently own and regularly sail? Do where do you want to keep this new to you boat in Seattle and what is your monthly budget for that. I only note this because something like a j121 even used does push your budget with new sails and personal changes to close above 450k not including delivery. a 900 a month slip fee and yard foot multipliers could break one's budget in a few short years.

Currently my own boat(s) are old CCA/IOR 30.7' racers and for 95 percent of my life are just fine. although older than many here's parents, they/she is a dream to sail and I can outpoint nearly everyone on the race course and with a right set I solo surf very well. I too have a couple of bucket list races to do on my own but only a few exclude me from participating in the regattas due to feet on deck. As for suffering 20 days on sea on her, why not? A little suffering is part of the journey. She will be easier and cheaper to put on a ship and send her back if I was inclined. In the past few years, I got heavily involved in a complete redo of a 1D35, a fine, fast boat for crew racing which is prepped for the Transpac but found out that she was not for me even though I thought I wanted it to be; life lessons I didn't see coming even though I was a fit 53 y.o. pretending to be 35.

I too am doing my research carefully as I am planning my next boat buy which i hope is a new construction. I am heading to Europe in a few weeks and will be visiting boat builders in Germany, Holland, France, and Croatia on another self guided motorbike tour. Maybe I won't find the right one and keep what I have for a while longer not denting my meager hard earned portfolio. The Newport to Bermuda race isn't going to end anytime soon. Yeah, I might take one of those old Farr i suggested to just compete and that would leave me with a lot of reserves to do a lot of other wonderful things in sailing and life.

Dang man! you and I have a lot in common.... I drove my R80GS from Ushuaia to Washington DC, but clearly avoiding a few countries all in all almost 30K miles.
what shipyards are you going to visit? Maybe you can share some of the info you learn?

 

[solosailor]

I keep my old California plated 1983 BMW R100CS sports tourer with hard bags in Heidelberg Germany.

Sweet.... had the last 1150GS, '04 with dual spark.... your bikes grandson. Great rides.