New boat for solo/double for inshore, Vic-Maui, Transpac and cruising

Ex Machina

Super Anarchist
1,234
553
New Zealand
Most Class 40's have been pigs on the West Coast. They need bigger breeze to show their strengths.
The MK1 Bieker would be a better choice for the Pacific. Not many to choose from. Someone will but it.
Yes someone will for sure and what a cool boat in great nick .
The OP said way back that the riptides aren’t really what he’s looking for .
 

T sailor

Member
462
106
Chesapeake
"They go upwind fine for thirty five footers, just not that great for boats that rate the same as Santa Cruz 50s…"
I was told that structurally would not like to do tuff crossings, which is one of the things I have to account with the type/style (sorry for my English, not my first or second language) of sailing I want to do, and at 35feet is smaller than what I want.

"When was the last time you sailed a “long and hard upwind crossing” that wasn’t a race?"
Delivering back from Hawaii, when a weather developed from nowhere and we had 3+ days of sustained 30-40Knts and breaking waves; 3 sailings back to Spain back from Guadalupe (Route du Rhon), 4 crossings from Europe to the US, and 3 from the US to Europe, 4 backs from Bermuda, 4 from Hobart, 2 from Rio de Janeiro to Spain, and quite a few other times from and to the Canary island. It is not something I like to do for leisure, but when you do a lot of miles in the ocean sometimes you get corralled by weather that you did not see coming despite the best forecasts.
Hi Wet,

Just stumbled onto your thread and have had similar thoughts on what my ideal boat would be. I own a J/120 but wish it was bit lighter and could plane. Since you want to do Hawaii races, I think planing ability would be high on the priority list. A used J/121 could be cool but at that price I would probably just put the money down on a JPK 11.80 and try to make it more cruisey. Or, I would also look at a used JPK FC38. I really like the design and it is relatively light yet still comfortable. I'm not sure how they do racing (don't think they are as good as the 11.80) but it is a better cruising compromise. I think they rate pretty similar to my 120 under ORC.

Not sure if any of the ones listed on JPK's site are still available, but they are under your max by quite a bit so you could get the boat shipped to the US and buy some new racing sails and still be ok on your budget.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
Hi Wet,

Just stumbled onto your thread and have had similar thoughts on what my ideal boat would be. I own a J/120 but wish it was bit lighter and could plane. Since you want to do Hawaii races, I think planing ability would be high on the priority list. A used J/121 could be cool but at that price I would probably just put the money down on a JPK 11.80 and try to make it more cruisey. Or, I would also look at a used JPK FC38. I really like the design and it is relatively light yet still comfortable. I'm not sure how they do racing (don't think they are as good as the 11.80) but it is a better cruising compromise. I think they rate pretty similar to my 120 under ORC.

Not sure if any of the ones listed on JPK's site are still available, but they are under your max by quite a bit so you could get the boat shipped to the US and buy some new racing sails and still be ok on your budget.

Good luck and keep us posted!
I haven't seen a rating for the FC38, curious what that is if you were able to find it somewhere? The only possible issue with a jpk 38 for the OP is it's basically designed with little thought to it's rating, just made for as much speed as possible while also being a comfortable and capable cruiser.

Potentially if the OP plans to race regularly and is interested in being competitive that could be an issue? I've never seen a rating for any of the JPK cruisers though so maybe it's a reasonable number anyway. But if the OP is somewhere that uses PHRF it may not be an issue compared to IRC ratings anyway, just some hope the PHRF committee is feeling generous and the dart lands on the good rating part of the board. On the other hand with a boat like that even DFL might be fun!

I tried a quick google search for the FC 38 rating but no luck. There was an interesting thread on some website named sailing anarchy about the build of an FC38 which looks interesting, not sure if I never saw it or saw it but forgot.
No idea what this sailing anarchy page thing is though, doesn't sound like the kind of place that would ever make it long term so probably not even around anymore. :p
 

T sailor

Member
462
106
Chesapeake
I haven't seen a rating for the FC38, curious what that is if you were able to find it somewhere? The only possible issue with a jpk 38 for the OP is it's basically designed with little thought to it's rating, just made for as much speed as possible while also being a comfortable and capable cruiser.

Potentially if the OP plans to race regularly and is interested in being competitive that could be an issue? I've never seen a rating for any of the JPK cruisers though so maybe it's a reasonable number anyway. But if the OP is somewhere that uses PHRF it may not be an issue compared to IRC ratings anyway, just some hope the PHRF committee is feeling generous and the dart lands on the good rating part of the board. On the other hand with a boat like that even DFL might be fun!

I tried a quick google search for the FC 38 rating but no luck. There was an interesting thread on some website named sailing anarchy about the build of an FC38 which looks interesting, not sure if I never saw it or saw it but forgot.
No idea what this sailing anarchy page thing is though, doesn't sound like the kind of place that would ever make it long term so probably not even around anymore. :p
See attached cert. on paper, looks like it would be possible to sail to that. Now, who knows what size sails are needed to optimize and the potential impact of them on rating.
 

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slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,090
1,466
worldwide
Agreed. Class 40's are awesome, but only if you are racing against other Class 40s. If you are racing handicap, you pretty much can go claim your DFL award before you start.

We did a 115nm race in the UK on a SF3300 (not known for its light air prowess, but it is probably better than people realize, still...). After 50nm we were side by side with one of the newest Class 40's around. They started 10 minutes behind us. I'm thinking they owed us at least an hour at that point. Breeze was mostly 7-10 knots, but to the advantage of the C40, I think, we flew a Code 0 for 20ish miles of that 50nm.
If you mess around with gran prix boats like a 40 you are competing in a pro centric, big budget world

best to stick with high performance racer cruisers and sail against your mates
 

T sailor

Member
462
106
Chesapeake
I haven't seen a rating for the FC38, curious what that is if you were able to find it somewhere? The only possible issue with a jpk 38 for the OP is it's basically designed with little thought to it's rating, just made for as much speed as possible while also being a comfortable and capable cruiser.

Potentially if the OP plans to race regularly and is interested in being competitive that could be an issue? I've never seen a rating for any of the JPK cruisers though so maybe it's a reasonable number anyway. But if the OP is somewhere that uses PHRF it may not be an issue compared to IRC ratings anyway, just some hope the PHRF committee is feeling generous and the dart lands on the good rating part of the board. On the other hand with a boat like that even DFL might be fun!

I tried a quick google search for the FC 38 rating but no luck. There was an interesting thread on some website named sailing anarchy about the build of an FC38 which looks interesting, not sure if I never saw it or saw it but forgot.
No idea what this sailing anarchy page thing is though, doesn't sound like the kind of place that would ever make it long term so probably not even around anymore. :p
Hey Psycho,

did you order your boat new from JPK?
 
Hey Psycho,

did you order your boat new from JPK?
I bought mine used, well, sort of used. I was looking into ordering the JPK 1030 when a used 1080 came up for sale only 30 minutes away. Sometimes the stars align and a perfect opportunity falls right into your lap. A very rare opportunity considering at the time it was only the 2nd JPK in all of North America. I think there may still be only 2 of us, but there's at least one or two more that are coming soon that I know of. Hopefully a few more that I dont know of too. As of now our North American JPK owners association meetings are fun but only lightly attended :)

It was basically new, about a year old and only sailed 2 or 3 times, less than 10 hours on the engine when I bought it. So, for the most part a brand new boat without the 2 year wait. I think the original owner became involved in other things and went a different direction between the time he ordered it to the 2 years later when it was delivered.
 

dreamingwet

Member
228
75
That is a lot of chicken scratch.
$200+K for it too! Way too much $ for a boat so old that was close to abandoned and a fatigued rig that will break at the slightest mistake. Not my words but from someone that is/was very intimate with her.
my brokers advisers are telling me that The COVID boats are starting to trickle down back into the marketplace too.
 
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Roleur

Super Anarchist
3,032
713
Orcas Island
Blue, the Bieker 41, may be the perfect boat for the OP. It has better performance than almost any Class 40, particularly in light air, is totally sorted and it is on the West Coast, on a trailer at the moment and could be trucked up to the PNW in an instant without having to pay for anything other than the transport. It is arriving from Hawaii on a ship on a trailer with rig and keel removed. For cruising it would also be at least as good as a Class 40, probably better. For handicap racing, it would actually be competitive, unlike a Class 40. Blue beat 4 well sailed TP52s on corrected time in the 2019 Van Isle 360. Seems like a better deal than the 35, given the age, details, and performance. It's a 15 year newer design.
 

dreamingwet

Member
228
75
Blue, the Bieker 41, may be the perfect boat for the OP. It has better performance than almost any Class 40, particularly in light air, is totally sorted and it is on the West Coast, on a trailer at the moment and could be trucked up to the PNW in an instant without having to pay for anything other than the transport. It is arriving from Hawaii on a ship on a trailer with rig and keel removed. For cruising it would also be at least as good as a Class 40, probably better. For handicap racing, it would actually be competitive, unlike a Class 40. Blue beat 4 well sailed TP52s on corrected time in the 2019 Van Isle 360. Seems like a better deal than the 35, given the age, details, and performance. It's a 15 year newer design.
Is she for sale?would you mind reaching out to me and letting me know who could I talk to?
Thanks
 

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