New Cubed - First Supermaxi Since Speedboat

[GauchoGreg]

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

Lift.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Mod 70's orma 60's and extreme 40's are all extremely expensive, extremely delicate grand prix machines and whilst also being extremely awesome and cool there are about as irrelevant and out of reach to the average multi sailor as a formula one car is to you average weekend warrior at your local race track.

You can pick up a late 90's ORMA for about what it costs to get a late 90's shitter F-1 car, or around 300k Euro.

I think this looks cooler: http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/brabham/1392145483/1392145483ss.htm

That's the equivalent of a 70's C-Class cat.

 

[hwpratt]

Closer to correct to call them lee boards (as on inland lake scows) ... they ain't in the center.

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

 

[DT Wanderer]

referencing d-grade multihulls when talking about the latest and greatest 100' racing monohull. excellent tangent

 

[r.finn]

referencing d-grade multihulls when talking about the latest and greatest 100' racing monohull. excellent tangent

^yup^

 

[r.finn]

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

I don't really either. I heard it discussed that the older fashion of having them angled outboard could have caused a bit of sucking the hull down if the boat was below the ideal heel. In this drawing I noticed the board and rudder look nearly parallel port to starboard. Perhaps the designed heel angle, in which the leeward rudder is vertical, is also the angle at which the raised windward board would be vertical with it's high center of gravity to windward, keeping the righting moment at a maximum? I know those boards are pretty heavy.

 

[Doug Lord]

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

I don't really either. I heard it discussed that the older fashion of having them angled outboard could have caused a bit of sucking the hull down if the boat was below the ideal heel. In this drawing I noticed the board and rudder look nearly parallel port to starboard. Perhaps the designed heel angle, in which the leeward rudder is vertical, is also the angle at which the raised windward board would be vertical with it's high center of gravity to windward, keeping the righting moment at a maximum? I know those boards are pretty heavy.

Those foils are designed to allow some vertical lift when the boat is heeled. First use in monohulls was on Open 60's several years ago. Since then some 60's went with curved boards like the big tris and now-very soon-it's gona be DSS.

Top of the curved board, when retracted, was inboard like the old foils but when deployed and the boat heeled it generated a lot of lift:

 

[r.finn]

[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]I've heard that repeated many times, but I never heard how much vertical lift they actually generated. I guess anything they can get is helpful. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.4444446563721px]Foncia is a newer design than Virbac. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.4444446563721px]They sure do seem to want them outboard as far as they can get them, which supports both ideas. [/SIZE]

 

[dolphinmaster]

Closer to correct to call them lee boards (as on inland lake scows) ... they ain't in the center.

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

I've also sailed on boats where we called them bilge boards.

 

[point]

FWIW BG has a similar board config.

 

[DickDastardly]

These wedge shaped monos sail at pretty big heel angles generally so add the foil's outward cant to the heel angle, keel and bulb out of the water too and you have a low drag and high lift configuration reaching.

 

[Haligonian Winterr]

In-ward angled boards was discussed to death in the VOR 2011-12 threads when (I think) Groupama came out with them. From what I remember, it was found that for a certain angle of cant inwards (as the boat was heeled), they gained a certain percentage of leeway, but also gained a far greater percentage of lift. From there it was just a matter of figuring out what was an acceptable ratio of leeway/lift.

HW

 

[nuttyrave]

Part of the development came from Macif (mast step location and daggerboards I would think) the lines seem very "VO70" to me.

 

[rmb]

Mod 70's orma 60's and extreme 40's are all extremely expensive, extremely delicate grand prix machines and whilst also being extremely awesome and cool there are about as irrelevant and out of reach to the average multi sailor as a formula one car is to you average weekend warrior at your local race track.

You can pick up a late 90's ORMA for about what it costs to get a late 90's shitter F-1 car, or around 300k Euro.

Yeah I know cheap huh? But if you want to use it then it's 10x that amount per annum.

I guarantee that neither southern hemisphere ORMA team is spending 1/3 of that per year on their programs.

 

[rmb]

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

I don't really either. I heard it discussed that the older fashion of having them angled outboard could have caused a bit of sucking the hull down if the boat was below the ideal heel. In this drawing I noticed the board and rudder look nearly parallel port to starboard. Perhaps the designed heel angle, in which the leeward rudder is vertical, is also the angle at which the raised windward board would be vertical with it's high center of gravity to windward, keeping the righting moment at a maximum? I know those boards are pretty heavy.

Those foils are designed to allow some vertical lift when the boat is heeled. First use in monohulls was on Open 60's several years ago. Since then some 60's went with curved boards like the big tris and now-very soon-it's gona be DSS.

Top of the curved board, when retracted, was inboard like the old foils but when deployed and the boat heeled it generated a lot of lift:

Funny thing about all this lift is that you pull the board up to reduce drag exactly when you would leave it down to produce lift. the drag penalty outweighs the small lift advantage. So it is useless.

At that stage, the curved board is also less efficient upwind, and at the wrong angle. so double loss.

C boards on monohulls are FASHION. that is the opinion of the naval architects.

Foncia in that photo, and Macif after have got very long straight boards with the tops outboard. that way you have the efficient straight board, even if it is at a bit of a funny angle...

 

[ColinG]

OK, Can understand off-wind lift, but seems to me that the upwind compromise would be too great to be competitive on any course with an expectation of variable winds.

 

[Bow Junkie]

Love the renderings and lines plans that come from Chevalier, but in discussing some mast, foil, keel, etc. locations with some fellow sailors it led to disagreements on where they were, sure enough the drawing is a little different from reality. Anyone know how they make these drawings?

 

[GauchoGreg]

OK, Can understand off-wind lift, but seems to me that the upwind compromise would be too great to be competitive on any course with an expectation of variable winds.

Have to remember that the double rudders with their angles, provide a good deal of the control on leeway that foils canted outward (below hull) would with the older style foils (and lost with single-rudder set-ups like WOXI).

 

[Schnick]

The easiest way to understand the boards on Comanche is this: look at all the pictures of it sailing. Any other 'wedge shaped' boat sails heeled with the bow knuckle in the water and a total bow down stance. Comanche is flying the front 10 feet of boat nearly all the time when it is heeled a bit. Now you could argue about waterline length if you like, but it looks very clear (to me at least) that keeping the boat in a level attitude and reducing the amount of boat in the water is the goal, and it works.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Mod 70's orma 60's and extreme 40's are all extremely expensive, extremely delicate grand prix machines and whilst also being extremely awesome and cool there are about as irrelevant and out of reach to the average multi sailor as a formula one car is to you average weekend warrior at your local race track.

You can pick up a late 90's ORMA for about what it costs to get a late 90's shitter F-1 car, or around 300k Euro.

Yeah I know cheap huh? But if you want to use it then it's 10x that amount per annum.

I guarantee that neither southern hemisphere ORMA team is spending 1/3 of that per year on their programs.

I don't think abbo is allowed near the books