New Cubed - First Supermaxi Since Speedboat

[MR.CLEAN]

OK, Can understand off-wind lift, but seems to me that the upwind compromise would be too great to be competitive on any course with an expectation of variable winds.

Even when going upwind most of these guys are cracked off quite a bit. Quicker to ease sheets and head to the new shift than it is to go 10 knots dead upwind, usually into big seas.

 

[GybeSet]

But Gybeset- considering the fact that the people who buy maxi's want to go as fast as possible through the most prestigious races on the planet, you'd probably agree.

So would it be a bad thing if multis were allowed in these races?

You wouldn't like to see them go even faster?

.

i) then they'd need a eligible boat be 'fast in such race', i.e heterios or the extra speed of a 110 footer wouldn't do, look to the specs of Comanche for evidence you could understand

ii) yes

iii) within the parameters of the game, same as F1, or Indycar or tp52, that is the point of the contest, you need to wrap your head around the whole point of the game, if you could understand that "you'd probably agree"

 

[Mr. Ed]

Love the renderings and lines plans that come from Chevalier, but in discussing some mast, foil, keel, etc. locations with some fellow sailors it led to disagreements on where they were, sure enough the drawing is a little different from reality. Anyone know how they make these drawings?

thanks for doing that overlay. Yes, I thought the drawing was wrong too - the mast is in the photos further aft, ain't that so?

 

[Kapteeni Kalma]

Pictures are often distorted many ways, but I would not trust any public line drawings, either. For secrecy reasons, there must be slack to fend off copycats.

 

[ColinG]

The easiest way to understand the boards on Comanche is this: look at all the pictures of it sailing. Any other 'wedge shaped' boat sails heeled with the bow knuckle in the water and a total bow down stance. Comanche is flying the front 10 feet of boat nearly all the time when it is heeled a bit. Now you could argue about waterline length if you like, but it looks very clear (to me at least) that keeping the boat in a level attitude and reducing the amount of boat in the water is the goal, and it works.

Flat water maybe. Seeing her on the harbour the other day though my impression was that she was dragging her arse. Substantial wake. Can't see the boards being beneficial pounding into a seaway. Lifting effect won't do much in big waves. Bow will still be in the water and a lack of leeway resistance is not going to be an advantage.

 

[neuronz]

I still do not get the inward - angled centreboards

I don't really either. I heard it discussed that the older fashion of having them angled outboard could have caused a bit of sucking the hull down if the boat was below the ideal heel. In this drawing I noticed the board and rudder look nearly parallel port to starboard. Perhaps the designed heel angle, in which the leeward rudder is vertical, is also the angle at which the raised windward board would be vertical with it's high center of gravity to windward, keeping the righting moment at a maximum? I know those boards are pretty heavy.

Those foils are designed to allow some vertical lift when the boat is heeled. First use in monohulls was on Open 60's several years ago. Since then some 60's went with curved boards like the big tris and now-very soon-it's gona be DSS.

Top of the curved board, when retracted, was inboard like the old foils but when deployed and the boat heeled it generated a lot of lift:

Funny thing about all this lift is that you pull the board up to reduce drag exactly when you would leave it down to produce lift. the drag penalty outweighs the small lift advantage. So it is useless.

At that stage, the curved board is also less efficient upwind, and at the wrong angle. so double loss.

C boards on monohulls are FASHION. that is the opinion of the naval architects.

Foncia in that photo, and Macif after have got very long straight boards with the tops outboard. that way you have the efficient straight board, even if it is at a bit of a funny angle...

There is a very interesting publication (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0029801814002558#) on IMOCA daggerboards.

I remember it stating they angled the boards this way to keep the deck free as it would otherwise interfere with the jib sheets.

 

[point]

Nice facebook gallery from onboard with Andrea

 

[SCANAS]

Certainly wins best spinnaker graphics prize!

 

[JL92S]

Could that be a jib outrigger in the last photo on top of the stack? Also in the second picture of of the fb gallery

 

[Bruno]

OK, Can understand off-wind lift, but seems to me that the upwind compromise would be too great to be competitive on any course with an expectation of variable winds.

Even when going upwind most of these guys are cracked off quite a bit. Quicker to ease sheets and head to the new shift than it is to go 10 knots dead upwind, usually into big seas.

So reaching around the course in boats that presumably dont plane upwind is the fastest vmc?Then why the narrow sheeting angles?

 

[jonah]

Could that be a jib outrigger in the last photo on top of the stack? Also in the second picture of of the fb gallery

Speaking of the stack; the cockpit is designed with winch islands to allow sail to be dragged into the cockpit. When they tack I guess all the sails need to stay to leeward. Reckon WO won't be analyzing aerial tv footage much?
Just found, a question from someone??????!!

Cruising Yacht Club of Australia

Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2014

NOTICE TO COMPETITORS NO. 1

The following question has been put to the Jury.

Q: Is the movement of sails within the boat or stacking them on deck permitted under RRS 51

A: No.

The NOR for the Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2014 has under Clause 9.3, (Changes to the Racing Rules of Sailing) amended RRS 51 as follows: A boat with movable ballast or variable ballast (within the meaning of those terms in the Special Regulations) may move that ballast for the purpose of changing trim or stability.

This amendment does not include sails.

Boats with movable or variable ballast are rated accordingly and that ballast is also taken into account when determining a boats stability.

RRS 51 states in part; All movable ballast, including sails that are not set, shall be properly stowed. Water, dead weight or ballast shall not be moved for the purpose of changing trim or stability.

The movement of sails for the purpose of altering trim or stability is clearly an attempt to increase a boats performance without a corresponding increase in rating.

Any movement of sails, within the boat, or stacked on deck are in breach of RRS 51.

IRC rule 2.5 states: The spirit of IRC requires that owners and designers shall not seek means of artificially reducing the rating of a boat, e.g. increasing performance without a corresponding increase in rating.

Stacking of sails would therefore be an infringement of IRC Rule 2.5. (IRC Rule 2.5 is not included in the list of Rules in IRC Rule 11.1. IRC Rule 2.5 can therefore not be amended or deleted by the NOR or SIs.)

John Rountree (NZL) Chairman Rolex Sydney Hobart international Jury 2014

Jury members; Tony M

 

[bodega87]

Can someone explain to me why this came about? You can build pipe berths and stack people into tiny spaces while sleeping, but you can't move anything else around. It's not an arms race limiting rule, it doesn't help or hinder boats over each other. I just don't get it.

 

[terrafirma]

Could that be a jib outrigger in the last photo on top of the stack? Also in the second picture of of the fb gallery

Speaking of the stack; the cockpit is designed with winch islands to allow sail to be dragged into the cockpit. When they tack I guess all the sails need to stay to leeward. Reckon WO won't be analyzing aerial tv footage much?
Just found, a question from someone??????!!

Cruising Yacht Club of Australia

Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2014

NOTICE TO COMPETITORS NO. 1

The following question has been put to the Jury.

Q: Is the movement of sails within the boat or stacking them on deck permitted under RRS 51

A: No.

The NOR for the Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2014 has under Clause 9.3, (Changes to the Racing Rules of Sailing) amended RRS 51 as follows: A boat with movable ballast or variable ballast (within the meaning of those terms in the Special Regulations) may move that ballast for the purpose of changing trim or stability.

This amendment does not include sails.

Boats with movable or variable ballast are rated accordingly and that ballast is also taken into account when determining a boats stability.

RRS 51 states in part; All movable ballast, including sails that are not set, shall be properly stowed. Water, dead weight or ballast shall not be moved for the purpose of changing trim or stability.

The movement of sails for the purpose of altering trim or stability is clearly an attempt to increase a boats performance without a corresponding increase in rating.

Any movement of sails, within the boat, or stacked on deck are in breach of RRS 51.

IRC rule 2.5 states: The spirit of IRC requires that owners and designers shall not seek means of artificially reducing the rating of a boat, e.g. increasing performance without a corresponding increase in rating.

Stacking of sails would therefore be an infringement of IRC Rule 2.5. (IRC Rule 2.5 is not included in the list of Rules in IRC Rule 11.1. IRC Rule 2.5 can therefore not be amended or deleted by the NOR or SIs.)

John Rountree (NZL) Chairman Rolex Sydney Hobart international Jury 2014

Jury members; Tony M

You are Not All There and you are dreaming..!

 

[ColinG]

OK, Can understand off-wind lift, but seems to me that the upwind compromise would be too great to be competitive on any course with an expectation of variable winds.

Even when going upwind most of these guys are cracked off quite a bit. Quicker to ease sheets and head to the new shift than it is to go 10 knots dead upwind, usually into big seas.

Can't see that working in the S2H.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Too short a race most years!

 

[newbiesporty]

Funny enough, the guy I did my first Hobart with said the same thing!

Never go hard upwind in a Hobart

He's had his fair share of success in the race...so I guess it can work

 

[USA190520]

Certainly wins best spinnaker graphics prize!

A 50'x30' Keith Richards?

Ok

 

[Monkey]

Certainly wins best spinnaker graphics prize!

A 50'x30' Keith Richards?
Ok

They may be on to something. NOTHING has been able to kill Keith Richards!

 

[USA190520]

Exactly!

 

[GybeSet]

Can someone explain to me why this came about? You can build pipe berths and stack people into tiny spaces while sleeping, but you can't move anything else around. It's not an arms race limiting rule, it doesn't help or hinder boats over each other. I just don't get it.

.

the crew have always been 'moveable ballast"

hows that ??