new mini, who says it needs to be beautifull

[LB 15]

Damn, it is still fugly as all hell.

It sure is. You are never gunna pull a girl owning that no matter how thick your French accent is.

 

[r.finn]

It's notable that there are only two boats in the proto class compared to the series class which had 20 starters.

 

[LeoV]

http://lessables-lesacores650.com/

damn only 2 protos, thats fucked up for innovation that comes from an open class. Last time in 2014 11 protos. Seems the serie evolved to a boat that to many people like ... so the success for one group is the nail in the coffin for the other.

And its one of the best races, long distance, nice islands, a sail back. No return transport costs. Takes a month or so in time.

Starts in right period too

 

[tomasis]

I should try that too.

Ian Lippinski did almpst 300nm in 24 hours.

Well done, Ian!

 

[Kenny Dumas]

I wonder if an off-center tack for the jib would be fast on a scow bow. Tack to leeward bow to open the slot when sailing upwind? I know many rules require headsails to be tacked on center line but who cares about rules anyway?

 

[r.finn]

I wonder if an off-center tack for the jib would be fast on a scow bow. Tack to leeward bow to open the slot when sailing upwind? I know many rules require headsails to be tacked on center line but who cares about rules anyway?

I've thought about that too. Having spent a lot of time upwind in a proa with headsails to leeward I think it's worth investigating for sure. Scow would be the platform for it. However the Arkema boat looks like it has a lot on already in experimentation land.

 

[huey 2]

Ian is across the line...

 

[Kenny Dumas]

Hey Ryan, I'd heard that Jzerro maybe benefits from the main being above centerline of the leeward hull. Can you tell us any more about your experience / sheeting angle etc.?

 

[r.finn]

In Jzerro's case it's kind of a happy accident, as the shrouds are to leeward to act as shrouds. It also allows tighter jib sheeting angles without closing the slot as much. For the scow, I'd be inclined to set it up for central forestay while doing the shorter races, and all mini races start with a windward mark rounding, but it would be neat to see a leeward forestay for long beats across Biscay. Again, Arkema has bitten off a lot of variables to figure out. IMO it will take years for that boat to get up to 100% speed as it's set up already. I'm glad to see them taking it on though. Beaucoup balls.

 

[Kenny Dumas]

Thanks Ryan, I think you meant "the stays are to leeward to act as shrouds" as can be seen in your avatar with the mast set to the left of the main hull, but it's interesting to hear you confirm the effect. It seems like a pretty low cost / simple way to improve performance to weather in many cases, such as:

-scow mini on long ocean beats

-any multihull on a long beat (tack to the leeward bow?)

-maybe storm jibs taken to the leeward rail instead of a padeye on the foredeck centerline to fight your way off a lee shore or to the favored quadrant of a storm

Old school wire stays would obviously be too complicated to move but a synthetic bolt rope with a well designed jib and maybe a halyard lock and/or mulitpart Cunningham could be pretty practical

 

[Jethrow]

You've kind of lost me with the "forestay to leeward improving windward performance" bit.

If you already have a jib with a good sheeting angle I can't see what benefit dropping the forstay would have.

You just rotate the lift vector more sideways or if you drop the sheeting point the same amount you just open up the slot down low.

It seems to me that rather than dropping the forestay you'd be better sheeting at tighter angles.

 

[Puntone]

More about Arkema

 

[r.finn]

Thanks Ryan, I think you meant "the stays are to leeward to act as shrouds" .

I did.

 

[huey 2]

unfortunate , to not have some breezy photos

http://minbaad.dk/nyhed/archive/2016/08/october/article/mini-650er-med-vingemast-og-foils/

 

[ColinG]

a floating lozenge?

 

[r.finn]

I think it looks great. I'd love to know how much the rig, boom and sail weigh, compared to a classic rig. I cannot imagine it's anywhere near as light as some of the rigs I've seen (some of which were a little scary).

 

[Kenny Dumas]

Looks like a traveler on the bow with no other visible forestay attach point, so they can drop the forestay to leeward? Why does this help? Its like canting the rig to weather sortof, with respect to the headsail anyway. And we know weather heel/cant to weather is fast in many cases: Moths, multihull, windsurfer, UFO, etc. Presumably due to the lift vector and reduced upwash?

 

[WetSnail]

Looks like a traveler on the bow with no other visible forestay attach point, so they can drop the forestay to leeward? Why does this help? Its like canting the rig to weather sortof, with respect to the headsail anyway. And we know weather heel/cant to weather is fast in many cases: Moths, multihull, windsurfer, UFO, etc. Presumably due to the lift vector and reduced upwash?

Don't know, but you may find some relevant information in these two papers on "Gap and stagger effects on biplanes with end plates": http://www.enu.kz/repository/2009/AIAA-2009-1085.pdf and http://enu.kz/repository/2009/AIAA-2009-1086.pdf. You can think of a sloop rig as a biplane with large stagger but, hard on the wind, a small gap. Kang et al report that both positive stagger (leeward foil ahead of windward foil) and larger gap improve performance. The traveler can increase the gap when close to the wind. Because of the "with end plates" part of the research, I don't know how well the results generalise to sailing boats.

 

[huey 2]

New Mini

 

[Merde2]

There's some more information here: http://www.seair.fr/

Not surprised that David Raison is involved with them.

They've got a different foil configuration on their website, but I think it might be an early rendering. Missing the T-foil rudders from above.

Seems like they have some experience building moth foils and booms. Interesting project.