new mini, who says it needs to be beautifull

[LeoV]

jonas A, 40 is mid size, not small, at least IMHO.

There were a few more the last ten years, I build two prototypes, one in Spain 9 yrs ago, one in Holland 6 yrs ago.

One of a very experienced designer of fast Tp52 etc, it just did not work. So much easier to move a few crew.

So the big plans of OD fleets died with one boat build.

 

[neuronz]

Sorry that doesn't compute, canting has the effect of increasing RM for a given bulb weight, particularly when using a non hydraulic actuator, where's the extra weight over fixed? I would love a small canter for round the buoys, just let the keel down in each tack, needs less crew.

For the same bulb weight a canting keel has more RM, but also higher boat weight. You need at least one additional appendage plus structure. And then every other structural item on the boat has to be stronger and therefore heavier as well.If you compare equal RM the bulb of the canter is lighter. But you still have the additional appendage and more complicated internal structure and actuation system. That eats up part of the weight advantage.

 

[jonas a]

jonas A, 40 is mid size, not small, at least IMHO.

There were a few more the last ten years, I build two prototypes, one in Spain 9 yrs ago, one in Holland 6 yrs ago.

One of a very experienced designer of fast Tp52 etc, it just did not work. So much easier to move a few crew.

So the big plans of OD fleets died with one boat build.

Yes agree, 40 is more like mid size. Wasn't just aware of any canting one designers out there regardless of size.

 

[french do it better]

how about this ?

 

[LeoV]

Ah man, that looks crazy.

 

[Doug Lord]

how about this ?

Great illustration of how little the Vendee(IMOCA) rules would have to change to allow real foiling instead of foil assist(drag your ass).

 

[yl75]

lead keels monohulls plain foiling is ridiculous DL, you can cut it now, it's over, justuse that lead weight for some carbon width then.

 

[Sailingkid]

If you think about it from the point of view of designing something to an existing rule I think that is a pretty awesome soloution, even though a simple 21 foot trimaran would probably be faster.

There's no point arguing against foiling monohulls, due to space constraints in most marinas there will continue to be more and more of them, provided the foils can be retracted most of the way in.

I wonder what contribution the wing rig has? Does anyone know more about it?

 

[Doug Lord]

lead keels monohulls plain foiling is ridiculous DL, you can cut it now, it's over, justuse that lead weight for some carbon width then.

You're just plain wrong! This sportboat is the worlds first foiling keelboat and as you saw earlier there will be many more.

 

[LeoV]

Please do not answer DL, otherwise this thread goes down the drain. Its useless.

 

[huey 2]

a bit more info

The Classe Mini is still one of the most innovative Monohullklassen and gives designers the freedom to test new ideas and concepts in tough regatta work on their fitness. With theARKEMA 3 a Protoype with Scowbug extendable Gennakerbau, Flügelrigg and Foils is getest since mid-year.

Since June, Skipper Quentin Vlamynck has sailed the boat over 2,000 nm to get acquainted with the yacht and to test its potential. Meanwhile, bring the crate regularly to fly and manage to keep the speed at over 20 kns. The topspeed of 23 kns was reached under big in Reff and code 5.

Classe Mini Prototype Arkema 3 - Photo Copyright: Maxence Peyras / Team Arkema Lalou Multi

 

[jack_sparrow]

a bit more info

The Classe Mini is still one of the most innovative Monohullklassen and gives designers the freedom to test new ideas and concepts in tough regatta work on their fitness. With theARKEMA 3 a Protoype with Scowbug extendable Gennakerbau, Flügelrigg and Foils is getest since mid-year.

Since June, Skipper Quentin Vlamynck has sailed the boat over 2,000 nm to get acquainted with the yacht and to test its potential. Meanwhile, bring the crate regularly to fly and manage to keep the speed at over 20 kns. The topspeed of 23 kns was reached under big in Reff and code 5.





Classe Mini Prototype Arkema 3 - Photo Copyright: Maxence Peyras / Team Arkema Lalou Multi

Look closely..that's a reefable wing...IMOCA here we come.

 

[Remote Control]

Is there anymore information about the wing sail they are using? Is it their own design ? The theory of these being better still doesn't seem to have been proven on real sailing yachts and maybe all the other tech like foils could be making the difference (if they prove to be fast)

 

[CrushDigital]

Is there anymore information about the wing sail they are using? Is it their own design ? The theory of these being better still doesn't seem to have been proven on real sailing yachts and maybe all the other tech like foils could be making the difference (if they prove to be fast)

If they weren't clearly better, sail area limited rules wouldn't have been using them for the last 40 years starting with the Little Cup boats.

 

[Remote Control]

Is there anymore information about the wing sail they are using? Is it their own design ? The theory of these being better still doesn't seem to have been proven on real sailing yachts and maybe all the other tech like foils could be making the difference (if they prove to be fast)

If they weren't clearly better, sail area limited rules wouldn't have been using them for the last 40 years starting with the Little Cup boats.

That's hard wings right? Just wondering if the complexity of trying to do it as a softwing so it is reefable works out better.
None of the big french multi's have done it yet....

 

[Merde2]

Is the wing allowed under mini rules?

The only guidelines I've found was concerning the number of sails carried on board and the materials used in their construction.

 

[CrushDigital]

I think the only other rule is about air draft. Production boats might have a few more limits but I think the Mini box is pretty open.

Most (all?) current wings are basically soft wings in that they are material stretched / heat shrunk over a frame. Not knowing the structure of their wing or how it's reefed, I really can't say RC.

 

[Puntone]

Is there anymore information about the wing sail they are using? Is it their own design ? The theory of these being better still doesn't seem to have been proven on real sailing yachts and maybe all the other tech like foils could be making the difference (if they prove to be fast)

The wing is from Romaric Neyhousser ( team Roucayrol designer ) and after covered by Incidences Voiles

May be somebody can translate this

Une aile souple comme gréementLe Mini 6.50 Arkema 3 est équipé d’une voile en tissu épais à deux éléments, à l'image des ailes des Class C ou des voiliers de la Coupe America, mais non rigide. Contrairement aux voiliers qui naviguent en baie, il fallait pouvoir réduire la toile sur le Mini 6.50 (prendre des ris et affaler complètement la voile). Le système devant être fiable et gérable par un skipper en solitaire dans les conditions océaniques.

Romaric Neyhousser : "Nous avons conçu une aile à deux éléments : un élément avant, autour du mât, et un élément arrière. Le deuxième est articulé sur le premier avec un axe de rotation déporté en avant de la chute pour créer un gap, une fente, entre les deux éléments. Toute la difficulté a résidé dans le fait de pouvoir tendre le tissu. Nous avons mis en place un système avec des profils qui permettent d’obtenir cette "allure" d’aile épaisse. Des formes en carbone, qui coulissent le long du mât, donnent un intrados et un extrados à l’aile."

César Dohy, maître voilier chez Incidence Sails, explique : "L’entoilage de l’aile s’est fait à partir de matériaux souples pour que le marin puisse faire varier la hauteur de la voile. Nous avons utilisé un tissu conventionnel, car nous étions bloqués par la jauge qui n’autorise que le polyester".

L’ensemble est donc articulé autour du mât, qui n’est pas apparent une fois la voile hissée. Encastré entre le fond de coque et le pont du bateau, le mât est partiellement autoporté sans haubans pour le maintenir. Seuls un étai pour porter la voile d’avant et des bastaques servent à le stabiliser.

 

[ctutmark]

Is the wing allowed under mini rules?

The only guidelines I've found was concerning the number of sails carried on board and the materials used in their construction.

If memory serves, sails with two layers and space between counts as two sails in the inventory. There also is/was a rule about the size of a wing mast and if it was beyond that size it also counted as a sail. Haven't seen the 2017 CM rules so this could all be different like the matter of the foil rules

 

[jonas a]

^this is the reason why a wing mast doesn't work in a moth