new stuff in the a-class

[remenich]

The pricing is acctually about the same as the G6, the aim is to have a premium product at a price that fits the market. Sometimes the premium product wins out anyway, like you can get a crappy tablet for $90 at the supermarket, but most people still buy iPads.

Must be aiming at a very small market in AUS if pricing is pitched at the G6 level. That would be AUS$27k for a platform. One is about to arrive at that level. There is a total of three G5's in AUS with one being a prototype. Obviously hasn't generated big interest.The boat seeming to generate much more excitement is the Exploder at a much cheaper price. Two on the way and will be very interesting to see how they go against the quick DNA's. They will be in VERY competent hands.

The CHF/AUD exchange rate has rised from 1.00 to 1.20 in the last year. Blame the australian government, not the swiss industry. AUD 22.5k is quite a good price for a prooven fast and reliable boat. Ask Landy and Brad why they stick with Scheurer.

One manhour cost: CH EUR 41.04, POL EUR 7.46, AUS EUR ??.??, NZL EUR ??.??. Fill in the blanks.

 

[SCARECROW]

None of the Aussie boat builders I work with charge out at less than $75 hour.

 

[SCARECROW]

You get a really good snap shot of pricing trends and costs within the A-class game shopping for rudder winglets.

DNA advertised price 125 euro (about AUS$180) per set but they don't reply to emails about them and rumour has it they are now more than 2-3 times that if you do get onto them.

Mark Thorpe is reported through word of mouth to be approx AUS$300 per winglet SimonN might be able to advise here.

D3 winglets direct from Haeberlin are about AUS $315 ($280 if doing a decent sized order)

Exploder winglets in a group buy AUS$150-200 per set (still waiting on the final number from Dave)

 

[Dougy the gun]

Dave who?

 

[SCARECROW]

Parker, he's putting togther a group order for winglets.

 

[WetnWild]

Dave who?

Stick to your NS14 Dougy, you don't seem to know anything.

 

[WetnWild]

The pricing is acctually about the same as the G6, the aim is to have a premium product at a price that fits the market. Sometimes the premium product wins out anyway, like you can get a crappy tablet for $90 at the supermarket, but most people still buy iPads.

Must be aiming at a very small market in AUS if pricing is pitched at the G6 level. That would be AUS$27k for a platform. One is about to arrive at that level. There is a total of three G5's in AUS with one being a prototype. Obviously hasn't generated big interest.The boat seeming to generate much more excitement is the Exploder at a much cheaper price. Two on the way and will be very interesting to see how they go against the quick DNA's. They will be in VERY competent hands.

The CHF/AUD exchange rate has rised from 1.00 to 1.20 in the last year. Blame the australian government, not the swiss industry. AUD 22.5k is quite a good price for a prooven fast and reliable boat. Ask Landy and Brad why they stick with Scheurer.
One manhour cost: CH EUR 41.04, POL EUR 7.46, AUS EUR ??.??, NZL EUR ??.??. Fill in the blanks.

Not criticizing Swiss Industry or the quality of the Scheurer at all. They are very well built and Switzerland is a great place to visit. Just setting out facts that not many have been sold in AUS due to cost and if the Paradox is aiming at that segment of the market it is small. Also the hourly rate you quote for Swiss is significantly less than AUS as mentioned by Scarecrow. As an example, car servicing gets charged out at between AUS$100 - $120 an hour. No need to blame any governments as exchange rates seem to be a product of international trading and commercial conditions.

Landy and Brad don't stick with Scheurer. Landy has recently sailed Scheurer, DNA, Flyer and currently has a Flyer at home with an Exploder on the way. Brad sold his Scheurer 20 months ago and currently has a Flyer. Of course they both sail whatever boats they are given, including Scheurers at particular events - wouldn't you.

 

[Dougy the gun]

Are you affraid of a little healthy competition

 

[NED 27]

The DNA is 15,5 K euro. That is more expensive than the Exploder, but you will get J-boards and a pre-preg instead of a wetpreg boat.

The Exploder is a well built reasonably priced boat.

A-cats are expensive due to high quality materials and relatively small series.

The A-cats are not too expensive if you compare the cost with the latest moths.

Still a complete boat is more expensive than an F18.

The boats are quite durable though and do have a high resale value.

Compared to bigger boats they offer quite a performance for the buck.

With the DNA we were lucky that the euro was very weak against both the US dollar and the Aus dollar.

 

[F18 Sailor]

NED 27 thank you for responding with accurate pricing. I think it is good to disseminate this information, a lot of people are scared off from classes like the A's, Moths, 505's because they see a lot of carbon fiber and jump to the conclusion that it is too expensive for them. We have a sailor with a high aspect ratio Flyer in our club who does extremely well on the A-cat circuit, often top 10. He's a great sailor, no doubts there but on his 10 year old boat he is still competitive. When you look at the average running costs for that boat, say $20K USD for the platform/10 years plus new sails every 2 years or so and average maintenance costs you're really around $4K/year, so a little more than the average car in running costs but fairly comparable with similar upfront costs for a new car vs. new A-Cat.

One thing I will say is carbon boats shouldn't be that much more expensive than fiberglass boats, until you make the leap to pre-pregs like many of the A's. Carbon is inherently more expensive, yes, by a factor of about 30x but the labor is the killer. Even here pre-pregs can come out way ahead as the layup time is reduced by a factor of half easily. Key is to build enough boats to make it worthwhile.

Carbon boats also last a lot longer. My fiberglass F18 will still be competitive in a few years time, yes, but it won't be as stiff as a brand spanking new boat. And this is mostly because F18's are waaay overbuilt. I would love my next boat to be carbon. All the A-Cat developments are exciting to watch but I'm very hesitant to jump into the class right now, buying new rudders and foils every 6 months to keep up with the trends is a bit much. Plus my sailing time is dedicated elsewhere, A's aren't great distance racing boats.

 

[williwaw]

Can anybody tell me the difference berween a Flyer 1 from 2004 and a Flyer 2 from 2008. (For the jokers amongst us I do know it is 4years) Are they still more or less competitive.

I am looking at used boat to enter the class so any info on any type of boats is welcome

 

[SimonN]

All the A-Cat developments are exciting to watch but I'm very hesitant to jump into the class right now, buying new rudders and foils every 6 months to keep up with the trends is a bit much. Plus my sailing time is dedicated elsewhere, A's aren't great distance racing boats.

Don't be caught up with all the hype. The Europeans were won by a design that is about 10 years old, using foils that were developed something like 5 years ago. The only thing new was the addition of some winglets to the rudder. There is absolutely no need to buy new rudders and foils every 6 months. In fact, rudders can be modified to take winglets pretty cheaply. As for centreboards, the top 2 boats used "conventional" C boards and at least 6 of the top 10 were using C boards.

Yes, there is a chance that a new foil development will mean we all need to replace foils, just like a new hull shape might mean all of our boats become obsolete, or a new mast section might mean we all need new masts. That is what happens in development classes. One interesting thing I note in almost very development class I have sailed is that many think the pace of development is a lot quicker than results and history actually show it to be.

 

[Sailingkid]

Tom,

Good luck to you and Dario. Looking forward to seeing how the boat goes against the Oz fleet. If possible, could you guys post some photos showing details of your line tails management? I'm trying to clean up my tramp so I am always interested in what others are doing.

Best,

Bob Hodges

Hey Bob,

Managed to get those photos for you today. Its a pretty clean setup at the moment.

Tom

 

[BalticBandit]

Borrowing from the Mini 6.50 class? The idea that Orange Goes Faster?

 

[Catnewbie]

Hi SailingKid,

Thanks for posting the pics,

Just one remark, the cleat for the circular track is on the "kart" (don't know the name)

Did you already try the cleat on the rear crosss-beam in the middle of the circular track ?

Any good reason for this option: (ie:more space on the tramp for tack & gybe) ?

Cheers Mates

W

 

[SCARECROW]

Traveller cleat on the car is pretty standard these days. Less rope on board and much easier when going wild.

 

[knobblyoldjimbo]

hmm, on my Maricat (yes I know, chalk and cheese) the cleat on the car tends to break. If you're sitting to leeward in light breeze, get a small gust you'll not be able to adjust the car. Still, very pretty and that orange, must be fast.

 

[Geoff H]

Winglets available ex Brisbane at close to the minimum price quoted - PM me for details

Geoff Harman

 

[Sailingkid]

http://youtu.be/0-dga9TUKio

Latest testing video from the weekend, complete with commentary as I sail along. The boards are setup to automatically go to the best angle for whatever conditions you are in at the time.

 

[Fireball]

Latest testing video from the weekend, complete with commentary as I sail along. The boards are setup to automatically go to the best angle for whatever conditions you are in at the time.

How does that work?