Major Tom
Super Anarchist
Is it just me or does this remind you of Ground Hog Day????????????
NEWSFLASH! Doug Lord enters for the moth worlds
- Thread starter the_skiff_devil
- Start date
slap
Super Anarchist
Doug Lord said:
There is no need to post about it here. There are too many doubters. So just go and build it, and then post the videos of it foiling.
- Banned
- #43
Von Braun designed the Saturn 5 and was the known expert in rocket design at the time, I don't think he ever rode in one though, other men did.
Ok so that is a stretch.
Engineers design, there are know properties, values and statistics that are used along with modern computer modeling.
I wonder how many F1 designers have driven an F1 car??
SO WHAT. Instead of embracing someone with ideas you guys seem to hate and reject anyone who does not fit your mold. Maybe the Moth Class is the new Clique for cool sailors.............
jwlbrace
Super Anarchist
dude- I've read your posts and seen your videos... much respect; you do make it look easy, though I'm astute enough to know it isn't!
However 'the people's foiler already exists'... perhaps you could re-phrase that to "the light peoples foiler already exists"... cheers fella!
Unfortunately us 95-100kg inland sailing, flukey prevailing-wind blighted, UK-based puddle dwelling sailors couldn't have a hope in hell of getting one of those things airbourne!
Happy sailing,
Jimbo
bistros
Super Anarchist
- 1,264
- 13
James:
I've followed your posts proselytizing for the RS100 with respect as well, but Bora's one guy that knows of that which he speaks. He's certainly not light for a Moth sailor - and he's had his significant other foiling with him - taking the weight up around 130Kg. He's helped get Clean up on foils - and his position is that anyone can foil on a Moth - perhaps not competitively on light days, but weight isn't the big restriction.
Bora lives in Detroit Michigan - further inland than ANY place in the UK, randomly fluky and without prevailing winds either. He sails on the Detroit River - not very big, but with regular 500-735 foot lake freighter and bulk carrier traffic.
Bora has offered to take Doug out on one of his boats - and I have no doubt he would be positive and pleasant doing so, coaching Doug until he foils. I'd bet that if you showed up anywhere that Bora was sailing he'd do the same for you just to give you the chance to drop your preconceptions about weight and skill limitations needed to foil.
--
Bill
Doug
As someone who sails quite a stable boat (a b14) and a moth I think your missing point with moths. Moths a good fun boat to sail because they are challenging but the skills required are not out of reach of the average sailors and the effort put in to try and master the skills is rewarded with some of the most fun sailing you can ever have. While I am sure that there are many advances that can be made to foiling boats does anyone really want to sail a boat that provides no challenge at all and is as stable as a barge. Perhaps evevryone should just get a keelboat and sail twilight races?
Btw is the peoples foiler inflatable? as that's the only way I think it could be easier to transport than a moth.
Doug Lord
Super Anarchist
=======================
It sure does not exist-not even remotely!
Some Potential Characteristics of a Peoples Foiler 2010(REVISED 11/18/10):
--
1) Category One-Full Flying
a- I have always conceived of a Peoples Foiler as an easy to sail monohull foiler using just two hydrofoils because of the simplicity of such an arrangement.
--
b-the boat should probably be capable of sailing well with a 200-220lb single crew and be designed, perhaps, to use a form of weight equalization-allowing a wide crew range from perhaps 120lb-220lb, if possible-or "lightweight" and "heavyweight" versions. And/ or, a two person boat that could also be foiled singlehandedly.
--
c-beach sailable: must have retractable foils and excellent sea hugging stability-with buoyancy pods.
--
d-reefable rig, perhaps similar to the High Performance RS600FF, easy to do. Unstayed Mast.
--
e-foiling characteristics:
---1- takes off in 5 knot wind-many areas of the world are very light air most of the time-it is critical to be able to foil in those conditions.
---2- excellent pitch characteristics-no crashes. Foils could be designed to have designed in/removable spoilers that allow light air takeoff with reduced top speed and reduced sensitivity to altitude control issues. A partial/full manual control system may not only be fun to sail with-it could be designed and developed to be sailed manually or automatically or a combination of both. Use could be made of variations of the Howes foil for the ultimate in two foil altitude control simplicity.
---3- low and /or variable altitude settings.
-- 4- removable foil extensions for light air reconfiguration-quick and easy.
f- Emphasis on extreme crew comfort with the possible use of lightweight sliding bench seats to make it easy and fast to move side to side.
g-Cost 1/2 that of a Moth-MAXIMUM.
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Icedtea
Super Anarchist
Oh god... Here we go again...
gbleck
New member
Boob?
- Banned
- #50
the_skiff_devil
Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #51
I am now very much regretting bringing this up.
Doug: Please, come to the worlds. Bring reliable proof of foiling. Better still, bring your full scale, working prototype people's foiler. I'm sure we could all make a gentleman's agreement to allow you to rebel race it and show us all how it's done and in doing so provide irrefutable evidence why we're all so wrong and ignorant. You've clearly already entered, so that makes things easy.
Doug: Please, come to the worlds. Bring reliable proof of foiling. Better still, bring your full scale, working prototype people's foiler. I'm sure we could all make a gentleman's agreement to allow you to rebel race it and show us all how it's done and in doing so provide irrefutable evidence why we're all so wrong and ignorant. You've clearly already entered, so that makes things easy.
bgulari
Super Anarchist
Jimbo,
Ignoring some of the cruft for the moment, as a 8-month mothie:
a) They're quite welcoming and friendly, really...
b ) I'm 90kg, inland sailing, flukey and wind blighted (DWSC based - don't believe the propaganda!)
c) I'm very 'mortal' in sailing terms.
Sure, I'm not competitive under about 7kts, and it's a bit wobbly, but hey, who want's to sail when it's that light anyway..
Oh, and d).. you're very welcome to have a go! Plenty have.
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jwlbrace
Super Anarchist
Hi Bill,
There aren't many times in life where being proved wrong could be quite so enjoyable!
I actually have a flat just a few hours up the road from Pro-Vela; you are quite right, my preconceptions of lard and skill, have meant that I hadn't even considered going there to have a shot at it!
Maybe next summer then...
All the best,
Jimbo
jwlbrace
Super Anarchist
cool thanks Mark... sounds like a plan!
I'm more than happy to trail the 100 down to Datchet for a day's yacht-swap if you fancy a blast!
SimonN
Super Anarchist
This is not good for my health. First, I thought I was halucinating. Then I thought I was dreaming (nightmare?). Then I thought I had stumbled across an old thread. Then I realised that this is for real.
But the biggest revelation has just occured. Doug Lord is a troll and a fake. The whole thing is a set up and somewhere, there is somebody laughing away at our expense. After all, nobody would be so stupid to drag out the same old tired shit as soon as they started posting again if they were serious.
Doug Lord is a fake and a troll. I feel much better in realising it.
But the biggest revelation has just occured. Doug Lord is a troll and a fake. The whole thing is a set up and somewhere, there is somebody laughing away at our expense. After all, nobody would be so stupid to drag out the same old tired shit as soon as they started posting again if they were serious.
Doug Lord is a fake and a troll. I feel much better in realising it.
How does this reflect on the Moth class over all? Sticking that on your own web site was pretty juvenile but kind of funny. Bring it hear a bit spiteful. Calling back the clearly completely unrehabilitated ogre from the grave? Shame on you! And as for the thoughtless fool that replied to him. Have a word with your self.
You slag him to fuck when he's hear. Moan about the place being quiet when he gets the boot. Then just when every thing is getting along well, with a lot less repetitive crap about moths it's worth noticing it's, fucking Beatle Juice, Beatle Juice, Beatle Juice
Sorry about this 'Doug'. I bet you're mostly a nice crackpot in person but your trolling is poison for this forum. There's much more traffic with out you.
You slag him to fuck when he's hear. Moan about the place being quiet when he gets the boot. Then just when every thing is getting along well, with a lot less repetitive crap about moths it's worth noticing it's, fucking Beatle Juice, Beatle Juice, Beatle Juice
Sorry about this 'Doug'. I bet you're mostly a nice crackpot in person but your trolling is poison for this forum. There's much more traffic with out you.
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I'll probably want to slit my wrists for adding my $0.02 but the current Moth isn't that impossible to sail. Sure I haven't foiled yet but in sub 8kt switchy winds, (upland, inland, lake) it was actually much more stable that I thought it would be. I weight in at around 230# or around 104kg. I'm not a rock start but I found my first time on a Moth to be much easier than my first time on a windsurfer. It is not an impossible boat. It just takes different skills that most employ sailing standard dinghys. It is similar with skiffs. They aren't impossible, you just can't plant your ass for the whole day and expect to stay dry.
Also, I think everyone on all sides of this one need to grow a sense of humor. If you can't laugh at this shit, you're taking life far too serious.
Remember that when you think your shit doesn't stink is when it probably smells the worst. Also you get in big trouble when you start to believe your own hype.
Now go have a cold one, find a happy place, and relax guys.
Also, I think everyone on all sides of this one need to grow a sense of humor. If you can't laugh at this shit, you're taking life far too serious.
Remember that when you think your shit doesn't stink is when it probably smells the worst. Also you get in big trouble when you start to believe your own hype.
Now go have a cold one, find a happy place, and relax guys.
Hey James,
i may be able to help inspire you... get down to mar menor!
10/12 knts breeze - in a harbour - so not too shifty
i'm only 85ks, but i don't think 10 more would matter based on my experience (i'm sure it will if you want to race properly)
Couple of weeks ago i asked the guy at our club how tricky it would be for me to try his moth.... he said easy, just swim over...
so i capsized the dinghy i was in, he did the same, i swam over and scrambled up on the board.....
first thought, how do i get on as it come up? (swing the back leg i was told)
It came up easily, and i was on.... much more stable at rest than i had figured.
pulled a bit of mainsheet (there really isn't much) and it started to move... same as anything else i've sailed, sheet more and it needs more weight out, all in balance.. but still stuck down to the water..
"Bear off a bit and it'll go"..... so i did, and it did......
holy shit, awesome and really not as tough as i figured.... rudder is ridiculously sensitive though, like nothing else (the only way i can explain it, is, it's like that feeling that you get when you drive your car away after go karting... you think somethings wrong, then you realise just how tweaky the go kart really was)
Time for a tack, so, off the foils, dive under the boom, start from slow again..... Figured the upwinfd was not the only way to go, i i let off the sheet a bit and eased her away... it slots into downwind mode fairly easily..., you sheet & hike against it, it goes faster and lower....
Mental. Just the most totally awesome sailing experience I've had in years..... (and only lasted 5 minutes)
Net result.... I'm sold..... Current boat now sold and getting picked up this weekend..... winter of saving..... looking for a moth to buy in the spring.
Just do it mate, you'll be pleased you did
i may be able to help inspire you... get down to mar menor!
10/12 knts breeze - in a harbour - so not too shifty
i'm only 85ks, but i don't think 10 more would matter based on my experience (i'm sure it will if you want to race properly)
Couple of weeks ago i asked the guy at our club how tricky it would be for me to try his moth.... he said easy, just swim over...
so i capsized the dinghy i was in, he did the same, i swam over and scrambled up on the board.....
first thought, how do i get on as it come up? (swing the back leg i was told)
It came up easily, and i was on.... much more stable at rest than i had figured.
pulled a bit of mainsheet (there really isn't much) and it started to move... same as anything else i've sailed, sheet more and it needs more weight out, all in balance.. but still stuck down to the water..
"Bear off a bit and it'll go"..... so i did, and it did......
holy shit, awesome and really not as tough as i figured.... rudder is ridiculously sensitive though, like nothing else (the only way i can explain it, is, it's like that feeling that you get when you drive your car away after go karting... you think somethings wrong, then you realise just how tweaky the go kart really was)
Time for a tack, so, off the foils, dive under the boom, start from slow again..... Figured the upwinfd was not the only way to go, i i let off the sheet a bit and eased her away... it slots into downwind mode fairly easily..., you sheet & hike against it, it goes faster and lower....
Mental. Just the most totally awesome sailing experience I've had in years..... (and only lasted 5 minutes)
Net result.... I'm sold..... Current boat now sold and getting picked up this weekend..... winter of saving..... looking for a moth to buy in the spring.
Just do it mate, you'll be pleased you did
