Next up! Al Franken

[Blue Crab]

From the 'right' perspective, abortion is murder.  Are people on the left who support choice immoral or do they have a different point of view.  From 'the right', stopping free speech at campuses in the name or tolerance is 'evil'.  Are the people on the left evil?  From the right, the best way to improve income inequality is by increasing opportunity.  Is wanting people to improve their lot through their own efforts 'immoral'?  You can argue that you don't agree with their approach but that's different than saying they're evil.  Sugar coating things like 'oh, you don't care about the poor' is just a back door way of saying they're evil.  It is.

The difference between a partisan hack and a moral argument is that partisans are never wrong. They just backfill what they need to justify their position.  That's a really easy test.  If you're never wrong, then you're far more likely a partisan than actually arguing from any real moral position.  Morality can take you places you don't necessarily want to go and usually does.  Happens all the time.  it's why groups like the ACLU end up defending the KKK.  But ideology never has that conflict because it's inherently self serving and narcissistic.  Trump is an absolute stunning example of a partisan of his own ideology.  When has he EVER admitted he was wrong?

I had a very liberal Catholic teacher friend comment that she thought abortion was murder, plain and simple, but as a woman and a human she wanted to be judged only by herself. She also thought Catholicism, with the vestments and all, was "great theater."  Back in those halcyon days, I was also on the faculty for several years. I enjoyed it and have many wonderful memories, but the best day I recall, was watching Father "Bill" frogwalked off the grounds in handcuffs. I gave him a big smile. Next time I saw Bill, he was stocking groceries.

The other thing is the comment about "partisans." One reason I keep hanging around, and call me naive, I am repeatedly stunned at how fucking partisan many are on this forum. On both sides of the aisle. I often have to laugh out loud, even though it's not all that funny.

Also, now that Uncle Joe Biden is being considered for sainthood, I'm reminded of all the incidents in his past that folks ignored. He's enjoying this moment but he won't risking running again.

 

[Spatial Ed]

View attachment 250374

Do you have one with Republicans?  Trump? Pappy Bush?  Moore? Bill O?  Ailes?  

 

[Blue Crab]

IT'S NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE! Let's get beyond that. We have a chance to do some swamp draining. I'm totally down with impeaching the Trumpster, the lying sack o shit. Sure, I'd like to move on Ivanka too, Like a bitch! But, doze dayz R gone.

 

[Spatial Ed]

IT'S NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE! Let's get beyond that. We have a chance to do some swamp draining. I'm totally down with impeaching the Trumpster, the lying sack o shit. Sure, I'd like to move on Ivanka too, Like a bitch! But, doze dayz R gone.

Which is why I don't think we will see the ethics investigation that Franken has called upon himself.  Too many skeletons in the congressional closet to unbury.  Better they just keep it on the low down.

 

[Blue Crab]

There will be a R shot like that soon enough. And well deserved.

 

[Blue Crab]

Which is why I don't think we will see the ethics investigation that Franken has called upon himself.  Too many skeletons in the congressional closet to unbury.  Better they just keep it on the low down.

Younger readers probably haven't heard about the weird shit with the Senate aides a ways back, and the congressman blowing someone in some men's room somewhere. And how about the stuff we didn't hear about? Bring it on. Few will go to jail. I just want them out.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

From the 'right' perspective, abortion is murder.  Are people on the left who support choice immoral or do they have a different point of view.  From 'the right', stopping free speech at campuses in the name or tolerance is 'evil'.  Are the people on the left evil?  From the right, the best way to improve income inequality is by increasing opportunity.  Is wanting people to improve their lot through their own efforts 'immoral'?  You can argue that you don't agree with their approach but that's different than saying they're evil.  Sugar coating things like 'oh, you don't care about the poor' is just a back door way of saying they're evil.  It is.

The difference between a partisan hack and a moral argument is that partisans are never wrong. They just backfill what they need to justify their position.  That's a really easy test.  If you're never wrong, then you're far more likely a partisan than actually arguing from any real moral position.  Morality can take you places you don't necessarily want to go and usually does.  Happens all the time.  it's why groups like the ACLU end up defending the KKK.  But ideology never has that conflict because it's inherently self serving and narcissistic.  Trump is an absolute stunning example of a partisan of his own ideology.  When has he EVER admitted he was wrong?

FWIW, PA is a 'partisan cage match' IHMO - not a moral proving ground.  Virtually all the arguments here are just ideological shit storms that ebb and flow.

The notion that "abortion is murder" is certainly within people's entitlement to their own opinions and beliefs, but it is not the law.  The Supreme Court stated the law as being that a woman has the right to privacy protected by the 14th Amendment, which protects her right to an abortion.  A significant portion of our population does not agree with that and ascribes to a different law.  

The law to which they ascribe has been ruled to be violative of the separation of church and state when a judge sought to keep the monument to the ten commandments in the federal courthouse, and violated a court order to remove them.  

The law to which they ascribe has been used to justify a judge's order to violate a higher court order to allow same sex marriage.  

Former Judge Roy Moore is at the heart of all of that.  "God's laws are always superior to man's laws." My objection to him has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with his lack of respect for the laws of the United States of America.  We don't see the Jehovah's Witnesses protesting the legality of blood transfusions, irrespective of their beliefs, or the Amish protesting travel via vehicles with internal combustion engines.  Yet members of Former Judge Moore's sect want their law to be the law of the land.  

Well, if their law requires them to look away and ignore it when grown men diddle 14 year old girls, I question whether their faux morality is good for this country.  It has nothing to do with partisan loyalties, at least with Former Judge Moore, it is about the rule of law and his pattern of not respecting it.  

Frankin?  Yup, he took a dumb picture and has to pay the piper.  

 

[Blue Crab]

The moral, ideological and intellectual foundation of the GOP was thrown out the window, runover, then burnt to a crisp in pursuit of winning with Trump.

There are parallels to be drawn with Bill Clinton in conduct of the DNC & RNC but the DNC didn't and doesn't have the staunch moralizing of the christian right wing..

I disagree with your first point. The GOP didn't want this guy, ever. They just couldn't avoid it. Arguably, the worst of the 17 crappy choices on the right.

 

[Sean]

No, they didn't support him.  Trump was an outsider.  The dysfunctionality of the Democratic and Republican parties led to his victory.

Bullshit. Once he won the primary, the Party was all in. And they continue to dance to Trump’s tune to this day. 

Sorry, but the GOP owns this clusterfuck. 

 

[Sean]

Trump is as close to an independent as there ever has been.  Hell, he was a Democrat not all that long ago.

That’s beside the point. Trump is whatever he perceives he needs to be. Who knows what the real Trump is, if there is one. 

 

[SloopJonB]

Trump is as close to a whore as there ever has been.  Hell, he was a Democrat not all that long ago.

FIFY

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Bullshit. Once he won the primary, the Party was all in. And they continue to dance to Trump’s tune to this day. 

Sorry, but the GOP owns this clusterfuck. 

Trump didn't abandon whatever principles he actually had to conform to the GOP.  The GOP abandoned any principles it still had to conform to Trump.  There was substantial overlap already.  

 

[Blue Crab]

I stand corrected.

 

[SloopJonB]

Trump didn't abandon whatever principles he actually had to conform to the GOP. 

Well no shit - he didn't have any to abandon.

Well, except "more for me" but that's a central precept of the Republicans so it was good to go.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

If it were any other way, Republicans would not have to announce their retirement before disagreeing with the Pride of New York on any matter as-or-more important than the preference between creamy or crunchy peanut butter.  The Party is all-in on the Trump train.  

 

[madohe]

Do you have one with Republicans?  Trump? Pappy Bush?  Moore? Bill O?  Ailes?  

I wish I did. Equal time is appropriate. Just saw this and thought it was funny. 

I think we, regardless of political leanings, need to do a better job of vetting our candidates, who, more and more, are a bunch of disingenuous fucks....

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Well there certainly is nobody around here who supports Trump...just a WHOLE lot of people who refuse to criticize him for anything and who defend him for everything.  But they don't support him.  noo.  

 

[Blue Crab]

I kinda doubt that Trump is lying. At least not intentionally. What if he actually believes the shit he says?

That's really scary. And because of the money and celebrity he's gotten away with it all this time.

 

[Bus Driver]

I kinda doubt that Trump is lying. At least not intentionally. What if he actually believes the shit he says?

That's really scary. And because of the money and celebrity he's gotten away with it all this time.

President Trump believes he is the product of superior genes. 

Eugenics making a comeback?

 

[Sean]

I kinda doubt that Trump is lying. At least not intentionally. What if he actually believes the shit he says?

That's really scary. And because of the money and celebrity he's gotten away with it all this time.

Alternative facts.