Next up! Al Franken

[Amati]

No surprise the Senate is full of creepy-perverted old guys.  Kick 'em all in the nutz and boot them out of office.  How fucking stupid do you have to be to do this for a photo?

Is he actually touching her?

 

[Raz'r]

Resign or no, his presidential exploratory committee just closed shop

 

[Steam Flyer]

http://www.kimt.com/content/news/Woman-accuses-Al-Franken-of-groping-her-458001163.html 

Classy.   Take him up on the ethics investigation... if there is a pattern of that type of behavior, then boot him.  

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

(from the above link, statement by Senator Franken)

“Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.

“While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.

“I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.

“And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. ....     ...     ..."

Light-years away from groping an under age girl and claiming it was OK because you had her mothers permission. There's not any moral basis to compare the two.

-DSK

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Resign or no, his presidential exploratory committee just closed shop

I wonder who we'll have as potential candidates if we hold them to an unachievable standard of never having done anything that someone finds offensive?  It seems that we continue to draw the line of offense increasingly closer, after a bit, it'll be impossible to not cross it.  

Please, before you try to phrase a witty, castigating retort - consider the question in the broader sense, and not as an attempt to lead anyone to an excusal of inappropriate behavior. 

 

[Rumbulls]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

(from the above link, statement by Senator Franken)

“Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.

“While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.

“I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.

“And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. ....     ...     ..."

Light-years away from groping an under age girl and claiming it was OK because you had her mothers permission. There's not any moral basis to compare the two.

-DSK

I was serious... I applaud and respect straight forward admittance.   

Guys harass each other all the time.... we all have a little jock in us and we all make mistakes when assuming whether its a joke or harassment.    Verifying that Al doesn't have a history of script writing/exploitation of women would go a long way.  Did he assume that since she was a model that that type of behavior was acceptable?  did he act because he wanted to look cool in front of soldiers (real men)?   Who knows... 

Louis CK was up front and straight forward... and it seems the heat is off of him.  

 

[Raz'r]

I wonder who we'll have as potential candidates if we hold them to an unachievable standard of never having done anything that someone finds offensive?  It seems that we continue to draw the line of offense increasingly closer, after a bit, it'll be impossible to not cross it.  

Please, before you try to phrase a witty, castigating retort - consider the question in the broader sense, and not as an attempt to lead anyone to an excusal of inappropriate behavior. 

Something offensive

vs

assault

I'm pretty clear on the differences. You?

 

[Raz'r]

Anyone ever consider how far back my hubby set women with his antics. But of course they were all stalker bimbo vast right wing conspirators. 

That’s it, I won’t vote for Bill. 

For the record, I said he should resign when we found out he lied to the American people.

probably would have saved us a Bush II presidency and the endless wars.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Something offensive

vs

assault

I'm pretty clear on the differences. You?

Yeah - I think so, and my point was that what we consider to be inappropriate seems to be expanding.  Are off-color comments an assault?  Were they 20 years ago?   It seems that we're holding people accountable now for behaviors that were if not acceptable, not contemptible at the time that they happened.   Cosby drugging women into bed?  yeah - that's a no brainer.  Franken's goofing off in a picture?  I don't think that crosses the line into assault.  His forcing a kiss?  that could go either way.  

Consider the earlier question, though - and it has implications for many things beyond how we assess potential political electees:  Beyond showing that such behaviors were hurtful, and reinforcing why they are no longer acceptable, Is it appropriate to apply today's standards to yesterday's behaviors?  Does forcing a kiss = rape?     Does the degree of offense matter? 

I like what Franken said in his agreement to cooperate w/the ethics inquiry - that's the mark of a person who owns his past mistakes, and is trying to make something better happen.  It used to be that such behavior was expected in any case of personal misconduct - though there are indeed some notable exceptions.  I wouldn't mind seeing us as a country move more towards personal responsibility and less towards blame and deflection. 

 

[SloopJonB]

Louis CK was up front and straight forward... and it seems the heat is off of him. 

Well yeah - because he's become a non-person.

Lost his show, his bookings etc. etc.

When the goose is cooked you turn off the heat.

 

[Sean]

There will be a lot of casualties in this war on sexual assault, and even "inappropriate behavior" that doesn't rise to the assault category. There will likely be some false claims too, but I would think very few.

I think it's all worth it if it forces a sustained change in societal behavior. Across the spectrum, from rape to unwanted suggestive advances, I have to believe that the majority of women on the planet have had experience. 

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

There will be a lot of casualties in this war on sexual assault, and even "inappropriate behavior" that doesn't rise to the assault category. There will likely be some false claims too, but I would think very few.

I think it's all worth it if it forces a sustained change in societal behavior. Across the spectrum, from rape to unwanted suggestive advances, I have to believe that the majority of women on the planet have had experience. 

Not bustin' your balls, but, I'm curious - what change in societal behavior do you want to see? 

 

[Sean]

Yeah - I think so, and my point was that what we consider to be inappropriate seems to be expanding.  Are off-color comments an assault?  Were they 20 years ago?   It seems that we're holding people accountable now for behaviors that were if not acceptable, not contemptible at the time that they happened.   Cosby drugging women into bed?  yeah - that's a no brainer.  Franken's goofing off in a picture?  I don't think that crosses the line into assault.  His forcing a kiss?  that could go either way.  

Consider the earlier question, though - and it has implications for many things beyond how we assess potential political electees:  Beyond showing that such behaviors were hurtful, and reinforcing why they are no longer acceptable, Is it appropriate to apply today's standards to yesterday's behaviors?  Does forcing a kiss = rape?     Does the degree of offense matter? 

I like what Franken said in his agreement to cooperate w/the ethics inquiry - that's the mark of a person who owns his past mistakes, and is trying to make something better happen.  It used to be that such behavior was expected in any case of personal misconduct - though there are indeed some notable exceptions.  I wouldn't mind seeing us as a country move more towards personal responsibility and less towards blame and deflection. 

Forcing a kiss has never been ok. No "either way" about it. But I agree to an extent with the rest of it. The photo is regrettable, and not appropriate behavior. Had she been wearing a light blouse as opposed to a flak jacket, different story. I suspect Franken wouldn't have done it if that were the case.

 

[Sean]

Not bustin' your balls, but, I'm curious - what change in societal behavior do you want to see? 

Respect for the "weaker" sex on the part of the stronger. Equality.

 

[Raz'r]

Not bustin' your balls, but, I'm curious - what change in societal behavior do you want to see? 

a world where the Weinstein's of the world don't get past working a 7-11 counter.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

a world where the Weinstein's of the world don't get past working a 7-11 counter.

I can appreciate that, and Sean's point.   I like to think that I behave in a generally chivalrous manner, and try to be respectful to everyone.  I certainly wouldn't mind seeing attitudes shift in that direction. 

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I can appreciate that, and Sean's point.   I like to think that I behave in a generally chivalrous manner, and try to be respectful to everyone.  I certainly wouldn't mind seeing attitudes shift in that direction. 

Double-edged sword that is. Chivalry can imply that a person is weak and needs protection from a superior.

Also note the entertainment industry generally is 10th graders that never grew up but with power and money and comedians are likely the most screwed up people overall in the whole industry.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Double-edged sword that is. Chivalry can imply that a person is weak and needs protection from a superior.

Also note the entertainment industry generally is 10th graders that never grew up but with power and money and comedians are likely the most screwed up people overall in the whole industry.

Point.  Such an attitude can be constraining. My focus is more on what Pre Washington articulated in his book of rules: http://www.foundationsmag.com/civility.html . You know, good manners and civility, kinda like being nice when you ask the chicks at the biker party to show you their tits. 

 

[Sean]

I suppose we are all a product of our past, slowly changing through the present. What we have here is a wake up call that hopefully will change our future “presents” for the better. 

I like to think I’m a better man now than I was then. At least I hope so. 

 

[Ed Lada]

FIrst off it wasn’t 20 years ago it was in 2006.  

She was asleep and we have no clue if he groped her or not based on that pic.  

If it was only the pic your point might be valid, but shoving his tongue in her mouth is considered assault and way beyond a gag. 

I’m  guessing more will come forward as the floodgates are opening.

Not condoning the pic but it's kind of hard to grope anything through a Kevlar vest.  Just sayin'.

 

[SloopJonB]

 I try to be respectful to everyone.  I certainly wouldn't mind seeing attitudes shift in that direction. 

Lets not get carried away here.