no more Miami to Havana Race

dreadom

Super Anarchist
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Geelong
Best thing about holidaying in Cuba in 2005 was the good rum, great cigars and there was no Americans. Plus crystal clear water and the biggest free swimming Morays I have ever seen in the Bay of Pigs. 

 

Snore

Super Anarchist
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Alone in Latin America, from the perspective of the gringo empire to the north, . . 

Cuba commits the unpardonable sins of making food, education and health care 

available to all 
Have you been there?  I did a delivery there BEFORE the cruise ships started coming. The vessel was not US flagged.  We walked the streets of Havana one rainy day and you could see the sewers overflowing.  That is not because of an embargo, that is just not caring.  Walking some of the neighborhoods, the multi-family buildings used by Cubans were in terrible shape.  But the hotel across the street was perfect.  

People are nice and friendly- but live in squalor and fear.  Did you know the government CONFISCATES 95% of the tobacco crop for their use?

I finished the delivery in Cayo Largo del Sur, the resort.  That was five days before the first ship arrived.  Interestingly, their shipment of sugar and some other food stuff that the resort needed did not come.  Why? Our best assessment from speaking to the locals was it got diverted to Havana so there was plenty of food for the gringos to see.

Not sure if restoring the embargo is the right move. But then again, as we tried to thaw things, they attacked our embassy staff!

 

justsomeguy!

Super Anarchist
6,333
1,354
shithole countries
No the government controls all the cigars sold in the “normal” markets.   Have a buddy who has family there.  Could get a shitload of cigars for $75.
Well the gov't controls all the tobacco sold in the US' "normal" markets too.

Just a bit differently, I'll admit.

 
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Sol Rosenberg

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Have you been there?  I did a delivery there BEFORE the cruise ships started coming. The vessel was not US flagged.  We walked the streets of Havana one rainy day and you could see the sewers overflowing.  That is not because of an embargo, that is just not caring.  Walking some of the neighborhoods, the multi-family buildings used by Cubans were in terrible shape.  But the hotel across the street was perfect.  

People are nice and friendly- but live in squalor and fear.  Did you know the government CONFISCATES 95% of the tobacco crop for their use?

I finished the delivery in Cayo Largo del Sur, the resort.  That was five days before the first ship arrived.  Interestingly, their shipment of sugar and some other food stuff that the resort needed did not come.  Why? Our best assessment from speaking to the locals was it got diverted to Havana so there was plenty of food for the gringos to see.

Not sure if restoring the embargo is the right move. But then again, as we tried to thaw things, they attacked our embassy staff!
I was there before the cruise ships and I’ll be there after, including but not limited to next week. Perhaps you should see the place after a couple of years of increased travelers and income. How many bubbling manhole covers did you see?  There are always a couple, but no trenches of raw sewage like you see running downhill in Haiti.

The hotels look nice because they are owned by European hospitality companies, usually a 49% share. 

The embassy “attack” is horseshit. The same thing happened in China. It wasn’t the Cubans. Pure propaganda.

You should go again. Stay in an AirBnB so you can meet some people trying to get by in the new economy, and support them. Do a search on AirBnB to see how many places are available, and you’ll get a better idea of who gets hurt when we crack down on the regime. You can take a private taxi out of the airport, eat and drink at private paladars, and stay at a private AirBnB. The government gets a share of everything through taxes...just like here. We should be doing everything possible to support the private economy, not stifle it. 

Edit. I get cigars by the shoebox-full every time I go. Not from the govt. It just takes a bit of time talking to, and more importantly, Listening to people and learning from them. 

 
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Sol Rosenberg

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Shootist Jeff said:
Yeah, this is just a fucking assinine policy.  It was one of the things Obama got right, to lift the embargo.  Because it worked so well for 50 years previously.  What the hell are we even afraid of?  Its not like there are Russian ICBMs there anymore.....
It’s a new world but we are still responding to the old. 

 

Fakenews

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Shootist Jeff said:
Yeah, I've heard there is a intense rivalry between Miami and Tampa for who has the best cubans.  Heard an interesting piece on NPR recently about it. Supposedly very different styles.  I've not had the Tampa one yet, but interested in trying it someday.
They’re both good.  Like I said it’s not my favorite sandwich.  Tampa definitely has the better bread.

 

hermetic

Super Anarchist
4,418
190
Have toured both islands extensively. Cuba is a shithole
spent 6 weeks on a job at gitmo in 2005, then 3 weeks helping in a gratis survey of elec / telephone in the sw section.  wires nailed to trees or running on the ground, diy open splices to houses.  open sewage - zero septic - just outhouses without holes.  doesn't get much worse

 

Saorsa

Super Anarchist
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spent 6 weeks on a job at gitmo in 2005, then 3 weeks helping in a gratis survey of elec / telephone in the sw section.  wires nailed to trees or running on the ground, diy open splices to houses.  open sewage - zero septic - just outhouses without holes.  doesn't get much worse
Sounds like most of India, China and about 25% of LA and SF.

 

Saorsa

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Shootist Jeff said:
Yeah, I've heard there is a intense rivalry between Miami and Tampa for who has the best cubans.  Heard an interesting piece on NPR recently about it. Supposedly very different styles.  I've not had the Tampa one yet, but interested in trying it someday.
Tampa has old Cuba, Miami are the Nuevo Cubanos.  The restaurant Sol recommended advertises itself as a 'fusion' restaurant. 

Jose Marti did his plotting in Ybor City.  Still a fun place but like Fells Point in Baltimore, the edges have been smoothed down a little too far.

The gulf coast was more cuban than the east coast for much of it's history.

 

Saorsa

Super Anarchist
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Average cost of a house in SF is $1.62M and that doesn’t even include septic. It’s just terrible in SF. Terrible I say.
How much is that in real money?

It used to be fun watching the West Coast defense contractors move into Maryland and try to find something expensive enough to shelter their 'gains'.

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

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Have toured both islands extensively.  Cuba is a shithole, but It's a whole lot better than Haiti.  
I've been to Haiti - and Cite du Soleil is the only place I've ever seen that had abject poverty on a level with Djibouti and Somalia.  I gotta think that aside from the lack of freedom of movement, Cuba's in a similar situation to PR on an individual economic level.  I won't ever be permitted to travel to Cuba before I retire, but, man I'd love to see it before development dilutes its culture. 

 

Olsonist

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How much is that in real money?

It used to be fun watching the West Coast defense contractors move into Maryland and try to find something expensive enough to shelter their 'gains'.
It used to be fun hiring those the West Coast defense contractors after that industry crashed and burned. Well for awhile at least. They were really big on policies and procedures but couldn't understand market competition to save their lives. That was all new to them. Seriously, given the choice between a pocket protector wearing patriot and an ex-Soviet engineer, holy fuck it wasn't close.

 
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hermetic

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Shootist Jeff said:
Sorta what you expect when you have crippling sanctions on you for 50+ years.  All the embargo has done is hurt the common person there.  It certainly hasn't hurt the gov't as it was supposed to.  So what's our answer?????  Fuck the people some more.  Maybe in another 50 year, it might work finally.
agree the embargo is bad for the people, and mostly just bad.  but it's also hard to see tourism on the north coast helping the people in the south.  creating some kind of industry down there would cost tons of money and time (no infrastructure).  maybe move gitmo to pr, turn the base over to the cubans,  and let them build out from there.

 

Snore

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I was there before the cruise ships and I’ll be there after, including but not limited to next week. Perhaps you should see the place after a couple of years of increased travelers and income. How many bubbling manhole covers did you see?  There are always a couple, but no trenches of raw sewage like you see running downhill in Haiti.

The hotels look nice because they are owned by European hospitality companies, usually a 49% share. 

The embassy “attack” is horseshit. The same thing happened in China. It wasn’t the Cubans. Pure propaganda.

You should go again. Stay in an AirBnB so you can meet some people trying to get by in the new economy, and support them. Do a search on AirBnB to see how many places are available, and you’ll get a better idea of who gets hurt when we crack down on the regime. You can take a private taxi out of the airport, eat and drink at private paladars, and stay at a private AirBnB. The government gets a share of everything through taxes...just like here. We should be doing everything possible to support the private economy, not stifle it. 

Edit. I get cigars by the shoebox-full every time I go. Not from the govt. It just takes a bit of time talking to, and more importantly, Listening to people and learning from them. 


I will get back loved the people.  One of my favorite memories was walking a back street in Havana and looking under the hook of a 50’s car and seeing a Mitsubishi 4-banger.  With help of a buddy to fill in the missing Spanish for me, had a whole conversation about how he modified the car to get it to fit...  As a delivery guy—— ya need a boat moved?.. :>)

You know after I posted that I did more research.  By the time I read enough to realize it was bullshit, I could not edit it.   So, I will put myself in time out for the error.

 

Sol Rosenberg

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I've been to Haiti - and Cite du Soleil is the only place I've ever seen that had abject poverty on a level with Djibouti and Somalia.  I gotta think that aside from the lack of freedom of movement, Cuba's in a similar situation to PR on an individual economic level.  I won't ever be permitted to travel to Cuba before I retire, but, man I'd love to see it before development dilutes its culture. 
I have a girlfriend in Havana now.  Her government lets her travel where she wants, it is the US government that keeps her from visiting here.  She doesn't want to leave Cuba, she is happy there, she just wants to visit and go home. She knows all about what the US has to offer; her mom lives here (but returns to Cuba for her health care). Hiring a car for a day is fun, and will get you out to see quite a bit.  A trip to Varadero is eye opening, but the destination is sterile and an example of what Eurotourism dollars can do. the only Cubans there are workers who get are transported in and out by bus. 

There is no doubt that the place looks as if it has been under the thumb of an economic embargo for 60 years.  It's hard to know whether their economic system could really work because we have not seen that.  We do know that the embargo doesn't work, because we have seen that. Re their economic system, it is remarkably similar to ours.  The economy there is run for the benefit of a very small group of people, with enough wealth spread around to keep the peace.  In the US, that group of people is a bit bigger, with enough wealth spread around to keep the peace.  We do have much better propaganda networks.  

Snore, no more moving boats there, at least US flagged.  That's the regulation that puts races (from the US) to Havana out of business. And the cars....  Yes, if you listen to any of the antique cars rumbling around, you will hear diesels purring under the hood.  Lots of Japanese, Russian and some Chinese engines under those hoods.  Nothing is wasted or thrown out there.  They re-use everything.  They do need some stuff, and I always travel with two big bags, one of which is usually stuffed with special order goodies.  A tie rod end for Rey the taxi driver's 49 Chevy fleetside, other little nicknacks.  Etc. And most folks are always upbeat and happy with what little they have.  Here we lack for little and focus only on that.  

 




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