No skiff at 2016 Olympics

[ccp_merc]

Want to know what is killing sailing in the US?.... ISAF is killing it.

I bet a smart person around here has the participation numbers and we would see big declines when NAYRU became USYRU became US Sailing and then ISAF took over everything from all the national/regional bodies.

Monopolies are bad and ISAF is a monopoly - but only because we let it be. Stop insisting on ISAF approval for everything, hold a "Worlds" or "National" event and tell them to go fuck themselves when they tell you they own every word in the dictionary. Time to secede. Who wants to start the petition?

I know this site is called Sailing Anarchy, but some real organizational independence/anarchy would be great for the sport. I think we should stop bitching at each other because the man is making it all fucked up, and just vote with our feet. I am sure Clean and Crew can get us list of non-ISAF events that we can support. Who the fuck cares if there are a group of old cheese eating surrender monkeys taking a fully paid vacation on my dime just to watch me do what they can't and "judge me?"

+100

+1

 

[ccp_merc]

Totally biased view (as I competed in 49er Olympics in 2008) but WTF!

It's time for a total reset!

+1

+1

 

[TheMinister]

Anybody up for organizing an ISAF (the anarchy kind) regatta down in Weymouth next summer?

 

[benner]

So, based on a rumour, Clean writes a story on the front page with the words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to deciding" without anything to back this up. Is it fact or, to use your words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to" just a wild guess based on somebodies Twitter with that somebody NOT being on any ISAF committees.

You can tell when Scott is away can't you.

I'm not at the conference, but that twitter (by a world champion who is at the conference) is not based on rumor... it is based on what the Executive Council presented as their selection. They don't have the final say... but they do make up about 40% of the people that do have the final say.

 

[johnnysaint]

So, based on a rumour, Clean writes a story on the front page with the words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to deciding" without anything to back this up. Is it fact or, to use your words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to" just a wild guess based on somebodies Twitter with that somebody NOT being on any ISAF committees.

You can tell when Scott is away can't you.

I'm not at the conference, but that twitter (by a world champion who is at the conference) is not based on rumor... it is based on what the Executive Council presented as their selection. They don't have the final say... but they do make up about 40% of the people that do have the final say.

Don't think he's at the conference. He said he's babysitting or something like that. Anyway....

The ISAF Exec haven't voted yet. Clean's front page story, and this thread, are based on what a few people THINK might happen. Wait till they vote then criticize.

 

[Tcatman]

So, based on a rumour, Clean writes a story on the front page with the words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to deciding" without anything to back this up. Is it fact or, to use your words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to" just a wild guess based on somebodies Twitter with that somebody NOT being on any ISAF committees.

You can tell when Scott is away can't you.

I'm not at the conference, but that twitter (by a world champion who is at the conference) is not based on rumor... it is based on what the Executive Council presented as their selection. They don't have the final say... but they do make up about 40% of the people that do have the final say.

Don't think he's at the conference. He said he's babysitting or something like that. Anyway....

The ISAF Exec haven't voted yet. Clean's front page story, and this thread, are based on what a few people THINK might happen. Wait till they vote then criticize.

So this report by Gladwell posted 6.40 PM Friday is wrong?

The latest news out of the 2011 Mid-Year Meeting of the International Sailing Federation in St Petersburg, Russia is that the Executive Committee has met and decided not to support the recommendation of the Events Committee made yesterday.

The decision called for both Keelboat classes to be dropped, and instead for a second two handed dinghy event, for Men and Women, sailed in the 470 class, to be inserted into the ten event card for the 2016 Olympic Regatta in Rio de Janeiro.

Instead the Executive Committee, which consists of the top echelon of the ISAF - the President, Presidents of Honour, Vice Presidents and Treasurer has opted for a Submission 29 lodged by Federación de Vela de Puerto Rico which favours the reinstatement of both the the Star and Womens Match Racing events at the expense of the two High Performance skiff Events for Men and Womens.

Are you saying that an exec comm vote is not recorded but this recommendation will be forwarded and taken up by full council Saturday and that will be the final decision?

 

[johnnysaint]

So, based on a rumour, Clean writes a story on the front page with the words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to deciding" without anything to back this up. Is it fact or, to use your words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to" just a wild guess based on somebodies Twitter with that somebody NOT being on any ISAF committees.

You can tell when Scott is away can't you.

I'm not at the conference, but that twitter (by a world champion who is at the conference) is not based on rumor... it is based on what the Executive Council presented as their selection. They don't have the final say... but they do make up about 40% of the people that do have the final say.

Don't think he's at the conference. He said he's babysitting or something like that. Anyway....

The ISAF Exec haven't voted yet. Clean's front page story, and this thread, are based on what a few people THINK might happen. Wait till they vote then criticize.

So this report by Gladwell posted 6.40 PM Friday is wrong?

The latest news out of the 2011 Mid-Year Meeting of the International Sailing Federation in St Petersburg, Russia is that the Executive Committee has met and decided not to support the recommendation of the Events Committee made yesterday.

The decision called for both Keelboat classes to be dropped, and instead for a second two handed dinghy event, for Men and Women, sailed in the 470 class, to be inserted into the ten event card for the 2016 Olympic Regatta in Rio de Janeiro.

Instead the Executive Committee, which consists of the top echelon of the ISAF - the President, Presidents of Honour, Vice Presidents and Treasurer has opted for a Submission 29 lodged by Federación de Vela de Puerto Rico which favours the reinstatement of both the the Star and Womens Match Racing events at the expense of the two High Performance skiff Events for Men and Womens.

Are you saying that an exec comm vote is not recorded but this recommendation will be forwarded and taken up by full council Saturday and that will be the final decision?

Read that report on Sailworld also.

I'm not saying anything except that the vote and final decision has not been made yet.

 

[Tcatman]

So, based on a rumour, Clean writes a story on the front page with the words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to deciding" without anything to back this up. Is it fact or, to use your words " ISAF's Executive Committee looks close to" just a wild guess based on somebodies Twitter with that somebody NOT being on any ISAF committees.

You can tell when Scott is away can't you.

I'm not at the conference, but that twitter (by a world champion who is at the conference) is not based on rumor... it is based on what the Executive Council presented as their selection. They don't have the final say... but they do make up about 40% of the people that do have the final say.

Don't think he's at the conference. He said he's babysitting or something like that. Anyway....

The ISAF Exec haven't voted yet. Clean's front page story, and this thread, are based on what a few people THINK might happen. Wait till they vote then criticize.

So this report by Gladwell posted 6.40 PM Friday is wrong?

The latest news out of the 2011 Mid-Year Meeting of the International Sailing Federation in St Petersburg, Russia is that the Executive Committee has met and decided not to support the recommendation of the Events Committee made yesterday.

The decision called for both Keelboat classes to be dropped, and instead for a second two handed dinghy event, for Men and Women, sailed in the 470 class, to be inserted into the ten event card for the 2016 Olympic Regatta in Rio de Janeiro.

Instead the Executive Committee, which consists of the top echelon of the ISAF - the President, Presidents of Honour, Vice Presidents and Treasurer has opted for a Submission 29 lodged by Federación de Vela de Puerto Rico which favours the reinstatement of both the the Star and Womens Match Racing events at the expense of the two High Performance skiff Events for Men and Womens.

Are you saying that an exec comm vote is not recorded but this recommendation will be forwarded and taken up by full council Saturday and that will be the final decision?

Read that report on Sailworld also.

I'm not saying anything except that the vote and final decision has not been made yet.

Ah.... the 49ner lobby money may come in handy tonight... Time to shoot the wad boys! Tornado sailors understand how this plays out...badly!

I thought they changed the ballot rules for this cycle ... The structure of the balloting created choices that screwed the T class the last time... US Sailing has not recovered their reputation from that situation.

Very little public discussion this cycle about how the council will go about voting. Sounds like they want to avoid being smoked when this call is made this time. It's natural to assume that the exec comm point of view will carry the day. ISAF just wants to make sure that no names are attached to the vote.

Still your point is... It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Are you betting on a late night change?

 

[johnnysaint]

I thought they changed the ballot rules for this cycle ... The structure of the balloting created choices that screwed the T class the last time... US Sailing has not recovered their reputation from that situation.

Very little public discussion this cycle about how the council will go about voting. Sounds like they want to avoid being smoked when this call is made this time. It's natural to assume that the exec comm point of view will carry the day.

Still your point is... It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Are you betting on a late night change?

I don't follow this shit much as I don't sail Olympic class boats and it's none of my business.

As far as I know, the vote & decision will not be made for 6 months. Any damn thing can happen in that time. The fat lady isn't even in the room yet.

 

[Fireball]

Olympic sailing in a boat like a 470 is like running a motor race in Toyota Corallas. Sure you have to be a very good sailor (or driver) to do well, but nobody really cares who wins.

The result is that getting an Olympic medal doesn't make you one of the top dogs in the sailing world. It's really just a training exercise. You have to go on and do something in a more prestigious class or forum (AC, VOR, WMRT) to be able to claim to be one of the best sailors in the world.

Maybe sailing should be like football, where the Olympics are for young athletes, and the main competition in the sport is held elsewhere.

 

[Tcatman]

I thought they changed the ballot rules for this cycle ... The structure of the balloting created choices that screwed the T class the last time... US Sailing has not recovered their reputation from that situation.

Very little public discussion this cycle about how the council will go about voting. Sounds like they want to avoid being smoked when this call is made this time. It's natural to assume that the exec comm point of view will carry the day.

Still your point is... It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Are you betting on a late night change?

I don't follow this shit much as I don't sail Olympic class boats and it's none of my business.

As far as I know, the vote & decision will not be made for 6 months. Any damn thing can happen in that time. The fat lady isn't even in the room yet.

No... there I think you are wrong... events will be voted on tomorrow ... Equipment will be finalized after trials and that vote will be in 6 months.

 

[johnnysaint]

I thought they changed the ballot rules for this cycle ... The structure of the balloting created choices that screwed the T class the last time... US Sailing has not recovered their reputation from that situation.

Very little public discussion this cycle about how the council will go about voting. Sounds like they want to avoid being smoked when this call is made this time. It's natural to assume that the exec comm point of view will carry the day.

Still your point is... It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Are you betting on a late night change?

I don't follow this shit much as I don't sail Olympic class boats and it's none of my business.

As far as I know, the vote & decision will not be made for 6 months. Any damn thing can happen in that time. The fat lady isn't even in the room yet.

No... there I think you are wrong... events will be voted on tomorrow ... Equipment will be finalized after trials and that vote will be in 6 months.

Given that the events depend upon the equipment, it ain't decided yet. Both the 470 & 49er are 2 person dinghies.

 

[Tcatman]

Olympic sailing in a boat like a 470 is like running a motor race in Toyota Corallas. Sure you have to be a very good sailor (or driver) to do well, but nobody really cares who wins.

The result is that getting an Olympic medal doesn't make you one of the top dogs in the sailing world. It's really just a training exercise. You have to go on and do something in a more prestigious class or forum (AC, VOR, WMRT) to be able to claim to be one of the best sailors in the world.

Maybe sailing should be like football, where the Olympics are for young athletes, and the main competition in the sport is held elsewhere.

No... I disagree... you ARE a great sailor. and representing your country would be a huge rush. More so then a pro career in sailing. So, just like winning the 100m dash makes you the fastest man in the world. Now... if you go play pro football your prestige will increase. Likewise, an Olympic Sailor can move onwards to those other pro classes and your prestige/notoriety will increase.

ISAF knows that these superstars can jump back into a keel boat campaign and increase the prestige and exposure leading up to the games. They believe they need the keel boat for this purpose. Building notoriety through the Olympics has been a key to a sailing career... the women trade anything to have match racing. Obviously they believe that this format increases their exposure and paves the way for the next step as pros.

I always forget... if the Olympics drop sailing... the ISAF has no money...I remember the number as something like 70% The whole thing will collapse. Moreover, The IOC won't strike a deal with any other upstart Sailing organization either.... they save money (sailing is expensive especially after you add in the venue and security issues They can easily bring in another cheaper sport. So... ISAF is operating for their survival... The good of the sport.... well your mileage will vary.

 

[Tcatman]

I thought they changed the ballot rules for this cycle ... The structure of the balloting created choices that screwed the T class the last time... US Sailing has not recovered their reputation from that situation.

Very little public discussion this cycle about how the council will go about voting. Sounds like they want to avoid being smoked when this call is made this time. It's natural to assume that the exec comm point of view will carry the day.

Still your point is... It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Are you betting on a late night change?

I don't follow this shit much as I don't sail Olympic class boats and it's none of my business.

As far as I know, the vote & decision will not be made for 6 months. Any damn thing can happen in that time. The fat lady isn't even in the room yet.

No... there I think you are wrong... events will be voted on tomorrow ... Equipment will be finalized after trials and that vote will be in 6 months.

Given that the events depend upon the equipment, it ain't decided yet. Both the 470 & 49er are 2 person dinghies.

True, but that is why the proposals add trial after the event to note the equipment is open. I would bet that the demographics of the 49ners don't match up with the demographics of the 470 class. They did not leave the event with equipment open for that reason.

Fast, visually exciting and different then laser and keelboat sailing may not trump countries interested / able to compete for medals.

How much money did the 49ners commit to lobbying? Shoot the wad boys... shoot the wad!

 

[Fireball]

Olympic sailing in a boat like a 470 is like running a motor race in Toyota Corallas. Sure you have to be a very good sailor (or driver) to do well, but nobody really cares who wins.

The result is that getting an Olympic medal doesn't make you one of the top dogs in the sailing world. It's really just a training exercise. You have to go on and do something in a more prestigious class or forum (AC, VOR, WMRT) to be able to claim to be one of the best sailors in the world.

Maybe sailing should be like football, where the Olympics are for young athletes, and the main competition in the sport is held elsewhere.

No... I disagree... you ARE a great sailor. and representing your country would be a huge rush. More so then a pro career in sailing. So, just like winning the 100m dash makes you the fastest man in the world. Now... if you go play pro football your prestige will increase. Likewise, an Olympic Sailor can move onwards to those other pro classes and your prestige/notoriety will increase.

ISAF knows that these superstars can jump back into a keel boat campaign and increase the prestige and exposure leading up to the games. They believe they need the keel boat for this purpose. Building notoriety through the Olympics has been a key to a sailing career... the women trade anything to have match racing. Obviously they believe that this format increases their exposure and paves the way for the next step as pros.

I always forget... if the Olympics drop sailing... the ISAF has no money...I remember the number as something like 70% The whole thing will collapse. Moreover, The IOC won't strike a deal with any other upstart Sailing organization either.... they save money (sailing is expensive especially after you add in the venue and security issues They can easily bring in another cheaper sport. So... ISAF is operating for their survival... The good of the sport.... well your mileage will vary.

The winner of the 100m dash is a superstar making huge amounts of money (Usain Bolt makes something like USD10M pa - not as much as some sportsman, but enough to set him up for life).

An Olympic Gold Medal winning and multiple World Championship winning 470 sailor here in Aus barely covers his costs and has to sail in Pro sailing events like the Farr 40 to earn enough to get by. The whole Olympic 470 thing is a joke - they are basically amateurs and they are nowhere near the top of the sport.

The same can be said about some of the other events. For example, the Olympic boardsailors are nowhere to be seen on the pro tour. They are basically amateurs in a professional sport.

 

[Steve AUS]

Olympic sailing in a boat like a 470 is like running a motor race in Toyota Corallas. Sure you have to be a very good sailor (or driver) to do well, but nobody really cares who wins.

The result is that getting an Olympic medal doesn't make you one of the top dogs in the sailing world. It's really just a training exercise. You have to go on and do something in a more prestigious class or forum (AC, VOR, WMRT) to be able to claim to be one of the best sailors in the world.

Maybe sailing should be like football, where the Olympics are for young athletes, and the main competition in the sport is held elsewhere.

Olympic sailing in a boat like a 470 is open to all sorts of people with opinions.

Seriously, have you ever met any of these people, or even had a glimpse of how they do a campaign?

 

[Steve AUS]

Sorry fireball, I read your last post, whatever.

 

[Fireball]

Sorry fireball, I read your last post, whatever.

The 49er and the 470 cover similar demographics. The 470 guys are lighter, but the 49er guys are not heavyweights at all - so it doesn't make much sense to have both.

IMHO this is a no-brainer: the 49er is more modern, faster, more fun, more entertaining to watch and has a much higher standard. They should have dropped the 470 when they introduced the 49er into the Olympics in 2000.

But no - the current proposal from the ISAF Executive Committee drops the 49er and retains the 470 for men. This is madness IMHO.

These guys have a crappy track record. The 2 most exciting classes in 2008 were the 49er and the Tornado. They dropped the Tornado from the 2012 games only to reinstate it in 2016 (possibly) and now they want to drop the 49er for 2016. It would be almost comical if not for the fact that their decisions stuff up the lives of many athletes.

 

[skiffman]

M10 gets it, no keelboats for 2016 but skiffs and cat are in.

Still a shame to see the star go, lets hope ISAF can get an 11th medal back to put the star in as Paul Henderson did

 

[Rohanoz]

Still don't get why they don't go:

1 men's board

2 women's board

3 men's singlehanded

4 women's singlehanded

5 men's double hand mono

6 women's double hand mono

7 men's multihull

8 women's multihull

9 men's keelboat

10 women's keelboat

Done. 10 events. Equal men/women. All usual sectors of sailing covered.

Then, fill in the blanks.

1/2 windsurfer

3/4 laser

5/6 49er (women can deal with it)

7/8 F18

9/10. Elliott 6 sports

Stagger the dates, share the equipment.