Old racer back to water

SockeyeUS119

Super Anarchist
Wow, you're doing a great job. If I had gotten here earlier i would have encouraged you to try to find some Black locust for steam bending frames. In some of the old sixes there are some sharp bends like that and the black locust does quite well. I have sailed old sixes that were in way worse condition than that and I feel the floors hold the boat together down there. I owned a Kettenburg PC (number 65) that was thoroughly rotted at the frame heels and it never even leaked down there. only the dry topsides from sitting in the sun pumped water in while we were heeled over. sorta fun.  The small frames are not a mistake, there are lots of them. 

As for full battens, the sixes only allow one at the top. On the first main I had built I did not even have that. It is much easier to trim in light air without the full at the top and it never stays inverted. 

Can you get red lead for bedding the frame ends and lower planks. and don't forget water stops there and at the dead wood. Leaks are hard to stop on end grain. 

Is there a trophy for classics kept wood mast white sails etc. like the sixes? Keep the wood mast it is so cool. Black sails don't look that good on classics. my2cents.

 

Trovão

Super Anarchist
...

Is there a trophy for classics kept wood mast white sails etc. like the sixes? Keep the wood mast it is so cool. Black sails don't look that good on classics. my2cents.
i beg to differ...

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Wow, you're doing a great job. If I had gotten here earlier i would have encouraged you to try to find some Black locust for steam bending frames. In some of the old sixes there are some sharp bends like that and the black locust does quite well. I have sailed old sixes that were in way worse condition than that and I feel the floors hold the boat together down there. I owned a Kettenburg PC (number 65) that was thoroughly rotted at the frame heels and it never even leaked down there. only the dry topsides from sitting in the sun pumped water in while we were heeled over. sorta fun.  The small frames are not a mistake, there are lots of them. 

As for full battens, the sixes only allow one at the top. On the first main I had built I did not even have that. It is much easier to trim in light air without the full at the top and it never stays inverted. 

Can you get red lead for bedding the frame ends and lower planks. and don't forget water stops there and at the dead wood. Leaks are hard to stop on end grain. 

Is there a trophy for classics kept wood mast white sails etc. like the sixes? Keep the wood mast it is so cool. Black sails don't look that good on classics. my2cents.
I think someone mentioned this Black locust earlier in thread, but I checked that wood and seems like I have no change to source it in Finland. Most of wood suppliers dont even list it in their "delivered on order" woods. Anyway I think laminated ash will work fine, it has done so on many other restored 5.5´s here.

I think this would have floated with very little repairs aswell. I am just the type of person that cannot stop thinking about screws that I did not replace and rot progressing in wood that I did not treat so it is better to do everything at once.

Yeah, it do seem like 5.5´s also have only partial battens, it might even be that full battens are not allowed. I haven´t been reading sail rules too closely as I have been focused on work with hull.

Red lead is still available here though sold only "for professional use". I am planning to use it in wood on wood surfaces under waterline. Thats how it seems to be made originally (and as this boat has lasted this well, i try to stick on those methods).

No such thing in 5.5´s. They are more focused on changes in hull as there is trophy for 5.5m´s that have pre 60´s hull, rudder in keel etc. I do like look of black sails in these although white is more original. But on the other hand these were changeover boats to "modern materials". I read newspaper clipping from 1954 that mentioned one Finnish 5.5 getting "brand new green (!) nylon sails from GB"

I like how this yacht looks:

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167149

Super Anarchist
No idea of racing fandom

Probably is, I just cannot smell it as I use half mask respirator all the time as shed I am working in doesn´t exactly have best possible air quality. Need to make smell test outside.

Some visible progress at last after lots of measuring. It is hard to make things right when you have just curved surfaces to all directions. Transom frame is now prefitted to hull, so I can start making 3 pairs of frames that were completely shot. Process of making these is easy, just take shape with soft copper pipe, draw line to masonite board, saw it, do fine fitting, make mould for laminating frame. After glue has dried it is just sanding and planing to make it fit properly.

Laminated wood is quite pretty.

View attachment 434682

I finally found "tungsten" mode from my phone camera so mahogany can shine now. Gaps that are visible are there because of shape issues still left on hull. When I finally screw to frames they should disappear.

View attachment 434683
great work, one thing though, that "stanley" should only ever live on its side unless in use.......... generally an arsekicking for the apprentice who doesnt do this (yup speak from experience)

 
great work, one thing though, that "stanley" should only ever live on its side unless in use.......... generally an arsekicking for the apprentice who doesnt do this (yup speak from experience)
Thanks, and that is correct. Nobody taught that to me but I kind of figured it myself that I should not wear blade that way. You can see it by its side on pictures on second page. Festo electric planer has little peg that protects chipper drum when not in use.

 
Hi @Pertsa, can you tell us anything about this beautiful boat?  I don't usually get excited about powerboats, but this one is absolutely lovely.

Great work on the 5.5m.  I really enjoyed reading the thread!
It is typical finnish coastal fishing boat hull that has cabin built for recreational use. Type of boats was evolved from coastal sail/rowboats. Mine was built in 1964 for a engineer to be used enjoying summer at finnish coast, so this has never been workboat. Hull is pine and frames oak. Deck and cabins are mahogany. 

For fishing purposes these were with only small forward and aft deck or with forward and steering cabin. Sizes and types wary little between areas where they were built and what purpose they were built. This was made on islands east from Finnish capital Helsinki. Largest of these types are 13 metres and smallest in 7 metre region. Mine is 8,5 metres long.

These were made by multiple shipwritghts along coastline in small dockyards. Every builder had their own plans and styles.

Typical dockyard:

Liljeberg%20Viljanens%20fiskari%20hallissa%20%201955%202%20x.jpeg


One with open deck:

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Some of these are rather fast, it was important to get catch fast to purchaser:

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And some of them are really fast:




 
Very cool!  Thank you for all the info.

These are called fiskari, right?  And Pellinkiläinen are a sub-type?
That is correct, etymology of that word is in Swedish work fiskare which means fisherman. Sometimes they are called as kalastajamallinen also which translates to fisherman-type. Yeah, Pellinkiläinen, Summalainen, Kumpuselkäläinen etc. are sub types. All those are places in Finland as common features were formed in each area.

Differences were in shape of waterline, width of boat or construction. For example it was said that Summalainen is heavy having every second frame as heavy frame where Pellinkiläinen has only 1/3 of frames as heavy frames.

 
Not dead yet!

So next job was to make sure that beam was correct. I think I might have mentioned earlier that Gullvinge was found to be little too narrow during official measurements of olympics. Issue was fixed by placing (ramming) beam at the widest part that pushed sides apart just enough to required 1,9 metres.

That beam was lost at one point of boats history so now when it does not have a deck it is easy to fix that issue. All started by making sure boat was level. 

I measured it from multiple points just to make sure.

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Laser level was nice tool for making sure of fore-aft trim. As I had found floatation marks before it was easy task. With laser it was interesting to see shape of waterline. As you can see from bottom paint old lady had gotten fat at some point. Now it is time to lose weight everywhere but from ballast keel.

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On the bow there was black stripe just on original waterline, I would guess that it has been on dirty water at some point.

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And finally after lots of measuring I found widest part of boat. It was slow task as 5.5 metre rule says that beam "Is measured at half height of freeboard". And for most of hull that is not widest part of beam. 

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Here again.

  • Hull widened to class requirements. 
  • Symmetry of hull checked and corrected
  • Hull stiffened for beam shelf installation
  • Twist in hull correted with beam pushing one side up. This change is to be locked with beam shelf, deck and splining of hull (hopefully). You can see amount of twist in first pic. Now it is just +/- 2mm variation which is acceptable for wooden boat of this age. 

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Edit. Also I sailed first time in 5.5 metre boat in woodenboat regatta. It was 1960´s Ohlson designed boat. Seems to be capable class of boats, not regretting this project yet. Though over 25 knots started to feel little much for boat without reefable sails.

Also spotted these beauties:

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Well, I can promise this thread will go on for a while  :rolleyes:

How many clamps you want?

Yes!

As someone might have noticed I constructed beam shelf from two parts by laminating. That is because hull without beam shelf is very flexible and bending (even steamed) massive beam shelf would have distorted hull. That wasnt issue for original builders as hull had probably jig at that point. I added clamps gradually starting from bow end to both boards in same time. Just to make sure that if there is some distortion of hull it will be balanced.

To keep two pieces of board sliding around I put one screw in bow end and tape to aft end to allow movement when bending board. Whole thing was packed into plastic wrap to keep glue from leaking inside hull. Now it is time to go sailing for a weekend and wait.

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167149

Super Anarchist
Same way you do it with slots - a sharp pick.

The difference is that if you haven't properly cleaned a Roberstson the driver won't fit whereas an inadequately cleaned slot will let the driver slip, chew up the screw head and gouge the wood before stabbing you in the hand or thigh.
slothead screws removal

1/ get correct size sharp screwdriver

2/ place blade on or in one end of the slot at an angle and tap shaft till it reaches the other end of the slot

3/ tap back the other way and you should have a clean slot

4/ if no clean slot do it again till you have one

5/ place screwdriver in slot

6/ give healthy whack with a hammer

7/ remove screw

 now has anyone a surefire method of removing round drive robertsons ?

 
Today I started final shaping of beam shelf. Work that must be done carefully, I don´t want to end up with ruined 5 metres long board.

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I also bought small bandsaw for easier cutting of deck beams. Seems to be quite OK piece of kit.

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When I bought Gullvinge I got 2 sails with it. 1 cotton spinnaker and 1 ripped silk one. Silk one is nice piece of history. It seems to have belonged to 5.5m L-20 Inga-Lill XXXXIV built in 1959. As it is marked with date 1960 it is probably first sail for it. 

L-20 was designed for himself by grand old man of Finnish boatdesigning Gösta Kyntzell. L-20 is considered to be best of Finnish designed 5.5´s of classic era.

https://www.classicsailboats.info/kyntzell?lang=en

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Written probably by man himself.

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