ORC boats & personality traits of the gifted

[Reference]

If you want to do well in ORC (or pretty much any handicap system), just buy a J122.

One thing to consider is the ORC "age allowance", which benefits older designs - a j/122 or j/120 gets a nearly .5% scoring allowance over a J/121, for example. 

This was intended to prevent older boats from being made obsolete by newer designs that were optimized for the rule. But a 12 yr old J/122 is probably faster now than when it came out, with advances in sail design.

If you look at the Annapolis to Newport race a relatively poorly sailed J122 beat several very well sailed an optimized boats by a good margin.  Speaks volumes to me...

That particular J/122 finished in the top 3 and ahead of 5x J/120s and a J/121, in actual time.   They also made a good call to go inside Block Island and closed most of the gap with the other two leaders.  

 

[climenuts]

Our local racing circuit has moved Divisions 1 and 2 (PHRF <100) to ORC and as an outside observer it looks to be producing much tighter racing.

Obviously it's going to be a tough pill to swallow if you no longer correct ahead of the fleet on every race but a full VPP based rating takes out the subjectivity of your friends (or enemies) at the rating office.

Age old solution to the problem is to race one design and shut the fuck up about ratings.

 

[Sebyseb]

Copa del Rey can tell you a thing or two.

https://regatacopadelrey.com/resultados2021/resultados2021.php?ln=sp

 

[EastCoastHustle]

If you want to do well in ORC (or pretty much any handicap system), just buy a J122.  They just seem to be easy to get maximum performance out of relative to other boats.  If you look at the Annapolis to Newport race a relatively poorly sailed J122 beat several very well sailed an optimized boats by a good margin.  Speaks volumes to me...

The 122 you are speaking about sailed a great Annapolis-Newport this year. They made the correct choices, added key crew members, and won. Essentially you are saying that their win is solely the result of their rating.

 

[vtsail]

The 122 you are speaking about sailed a great Annapolis-Newport this year. They made the correct choices, added key crew members, and won. Essentially you are saying that their win is solely the result of their rating.

Not exactly.  What I am saying is that the 122 is an easy boat to sail to its rating.  It takes less skill to sail that boat at/above polars than many other boats in that size/performance range.  122s fair well under ORC/IRC/PHRF.  I have sailed on and against them enough to know they are a good handicap boat.  The 122 from A2N went the right way for sure, but from our time sailing near them I wouldn't say they were particularly well sailed.  Just an easy boat to sail to its rating that's all.

 

[Jono]

The ORC Worlds results are fairly wide ranging. Quite encouraging as the reports suggest a good mix of breeze and course.

A Div - a pro TP52 nearly won. Fastest boat, well sailed. A new works? Grand Soleil 44 with a full programe was there but some older designs were still in the mix.

Div B and C. A good mix of fastish and displacement racer cruisers. The only boats out the back were the light planing boats,. Ker 11.3 and Farr 30s

 

[F18 Sailor]

Not exactly.  What I am saying is that the 122 is an easy boat to sail to its rating.  It takes less skill to sail that boat at/above polars than many other boats in that size/performance range.  122s fair well under ORC/IRC/PHRF.  I have sailed on and against them enough to know they are a good handicap boat.  The 122 from A2N went the right way for sure, but from our time sailing near them I wouldn't say they were particularly well sailed.  Just an easy boat to sail to its rating that's all.

That’s a little bit different than saying they were poorly sailed. My 2 cents, they were well enough sailed to get to the tide gate at Block Island, gaining a nice current push and allowing them to win the race on corrected time. It should also be noted that they were pretty well sorted, based on the sail inventory coming off the boat after the race. Not that it particularly mattered for this race, but I suspect their A2 was in better shape than the J/120’s in the race. That would be enough to give them the 2% speed boost they had to get to the tide gate at the right time.

All that being said, the evidence does suggest that a J/122 can sail to its rating and win downwind races on corrected time in ORC, against similar boats.

 

[F18 Sailor]

I'd disagree that it favors heavier racer cruisers. Looking at the bigger ORC events in the northeast this year, there is a good mix of GP boats/racer-cruisers at the top of the pack. ORC is more about finding the best configuration for your boat. The top teams spend an enormous amount of effort on sailplan optimization, post race data analysis, etc and run tons of test certs before finalizing any changes. 

I would say that ORC windward-leeward racing is more about finding a boat that will be the scratch boat in class. Alternatively, pick a boat and optimize it to get to the Windward mark before the other boats in your class. Case in point, at the recent ORC East Coast Championships, the scratch boat in ORC A and C won their classes quite handily. It’s pretty challenging to beat a boat on a short course that is always sailing in clear air and able to go where they chose. It certainly helps to have pros onboard to make the right tactical decisions!

 

[SEC16518]

Anyone have issues getting their ORC club certs this year?  I tried in the spring, followed up in the summer, still never received and boat is sold now.  The rep that emailed with me said they were backed up??

 

[T sailor]

I had to prod quite a bit to get mine and I think the guy who handled them is no longer with US sailing.  I think you just need to stay on top of them and give them a deadline (specific regatta).  

 

[SEC16518]

Yeah, I gave them a deadline for a race in early June and followed up a few times.  Not sure what takes so long for info to be inserted into a spreadsheet?

 

[Steam Flyer]

You guys can argue about ORCs all you want, I am more interested in finding the right HOBBIT boat

FB- Doug

 

[sinker]

Is this thread going to lead to another thread, "PHRF boats & personality traits of the "special""?

 

[Carrera]

I don't think the sub-50 foot racer/cruiser bias is intentional. I think it is just a consequence of what is racing in each size range. Sub-50 feet, you see a lot of racer/cruisers so therefor the random odds that a racer/cruiser does well on any rating system are higher. As you move above 50 feet, there just aren't many racer/cruisers. Most competing at that size range are stripped out racers and therefor the random odds that a racing design wins are also greater. Also, you could argue that the average 50 foot plus race boat sails closer to it's theoretical potential (with pros, new sails, etc.) than the average sub-50 foot boat.

I'm a believer (for better or worse) that a VPP based rating system at the end of the day gives accurately measured boats a fair shot at doing well if the right rating number is applied for the conditions experienced (and is always better than the PHRF alternative).

 

[Keysrock35]

On the lake huron side, 1970s designs fare well. 

 

[Chimp too]

All rating systems rate the potential performance of the yacht, not the crew. It is the nature of the beast. If you want to include crew ability, use a handicap rule.

Also interesting that many assume that the closer the results, the more accurate the system. This assumes everyone is equally well prepared and capable. Just look front to back in a one design fleet. They don’t all finish together, so don’t expect the corrected results in a rating system to be any closer. But g to he beat sailed boats should win.

looking at ORC results in Europe, remember that all the top boats will have spent huge amounts of time and money optimising appendages, sails and configurations. They are not standard, unless you get a Swan 45, then you have a great head start.

 

[bgytr]

That’s a little bit different than saying they were poorly sailed. My 2 cents, they were well enough sailed to get to the tide gate at Block Island, gaining a nice current push and allowing them to win the race on corrected time. It should also be noted that they were pretty well sorted, based on the sail inventory coming off the boat after the race. Not that it particularly mattered for this race, but I suspect their A2 was in better shape than the J/120’s in the race. That would be enough to give them the 2% speed boost they had to get to the tide gate at the right time.

All that being said, the evidence does suggest that a J/122 can sail to its rating and win downwind races on corrected time in ORC, against similar boats.

Sails make a huge difference.  I sailed many seasons on a J120 and we were usually at the top of em.  Towards the end of the program, some of the sails were definitely at their end of competitiveness.  Another J120 that we regularly beat got a new A2 spin- in one race on a long downwind leg they were lower and faster, and pulled away from us, which had never happened before.  Usually we had boat speed all over them.