It's a nice idea, but isn't the USA like here in Australia where the volunteers are already flat out doing the vast majority of the work that keeps the sport going? I've never seen a keen volunteer who has the spare time to take over the work that a paid employee is doing, without giving up the vital work they are already doing.
Organizing Sailing as Gouvernail Sees It.
- Thread starter Gouvernail
- Start date
It's a nice idea, but isn't the USA like here in Australia where the volunteers are already flat out doing the vast majority of the work that keeps the sport going? I've never seen a keen volunteer who has the spare time to take over the work that a paid employee is doing, without giving up the vital work they are already doing.
World Sailing's rules are simple - there is NO racing under sail that is allowed to happen unless it is run by a club affiliated with the national body. Any grassroots club that abandons its national body should have its members and racers banned from the sport.
Our isolated country grassroots club abandoned our national body a few years ago when the membership dropped to the point where the club didn't have enough members to fulfil the affiliation requirements. The governing body said that they would not consider bending the rules to suit a club like ours, so the club stopped paying fees.
Over the last few years we've grown the club during a period of record drought, record bushfires, record local job cutbacks and a pandemic - so we were told five days before our annual regatta that everyone who turned up would be banned from the sport because we are not currently affiliated with the same body that refused to agree that we could remain affiliated a few years ago.
I've spent much of my career working in government investigations involving issues like war crimes, and we don't write letters as blunt and threatening as the one our club (and others) received for the terrible crime of trying to spend our money getting things like flushing toilets and more sail training boats instead of paying fees to the body that rejected us when we were at a low ebb, and that has never tried to contact us before sending us a letter threatening to ban everyone.
I can't find any other sporting body that claims it runs every race within its entire sport, everywhere on the globe. WS claims it does, and it decided it had this power without asking the sailors.
There is at least one quite big club in Sydney that isn't affiliated. It donated the local affiliated dinghy club a brand new rescue boat, which is (I think) far more than the dinghy club has ever got from the national body. Members tell me that the reason AS doesn't go after the big unaffiliated club is because it's too big, has too many lawyers, and too many contacts.
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DavidYacht
Member
Upon reflection I don‘t think that the absence of the RYA would have much impact on sailboat racing in the UK … as previously pointed out, I am sure that the class association and the clubs would take up the slack. That is not to say it didn’t have a role, but has diversified away from its original purpose. I suspect The situation in the US is not much different.
pqbon
Anarchist
I think it wouldn't be immediate but I think without the RYA things would go in the wrong direction.
The RYA provides legal assistance and guidance to clubs. Help navigating grants and funding. Programs and structure for youth involvement.
Could things go on -- sure - I mean the US has it and US Sailing provided very little but you can see the effect in the US of not having a guiding central body. But without PY updates for new classes/boats or central training organisation (used by a large chunk of the world) - no yachtmasters or new VHF licences or offshore race safety training. Things would be going in the wrong direction -- not to mention the consulting and lobbying on bahalf of boating at the government level.
Foredeck Shuffle
More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
USS's coffers for the Olympic path is an order of magnitude less than what is seen as necessary by countries with successful programs. So the money isn't coming in there.
General donations towards programs around the country, save for a very few elite clubs, is also very poor.
There was leadership, until a few weeks ago, but no support. What would someone be waiting for? Gold? They'll donate when there is a gold medal already won?
There is no proof that there is much support... ...for anything.
Loose Cannon
Super Anarchist
Any national authority needs (at a minimum) to achieve a few goals:
1) Ensure that there is easy to access to comprehensive water safety and sailing safety course content, and teaching how to sail.
2) Outreach and support to potential sailors and the clubs who attract them at the local level - that may include social outreach, bring a friend to sail, heck even a couple sets of Drones and production resources to teach people how to create their local content to make sailing fun to watch and participate in.
3) Support local clubs (including facilitating relationships with, and outreach to insurance underwriters)
4) Facilitate regional and national events
5-1,000,000) See above
1) Ensure that there is easy to access to comprehensive water safety and sailing safety course content, and teaching how to sail.
2) Outreach and support to potential sailors and the clubs who attract them at the local level - that may include social outreach, bring a friend to sail, heck even a couple sets of Drones and production resources to teach people how to create their local content to make sailing fun to watch and participate in.
3) Support local clubs (including facilitating relationships with, and outreach to insurance underwriters)
4) Facilitate regional and national events
5-1,000,000) See above
knh555
Member
- 269
- 276
Just call those events”clinics” and keep scores to help people improve.
Or ignore them and sail your boats.
Gouvernail
Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
- Thread starter
- #29
You describe nice tasks of the sort which balloon into huge organizations whose original goals are abandoned.
It starts with a couple people seeing each other on the water and enjoying some sort of race.
Then they notice another boat.
Then they start deliberately meeting on a specific day and time.
At some point the game develops to the point where one person sets up an email group or Facebook group or a thread like the Texas Centerboard fleet has in Dinghy Anarchy
Maybe somebody agrees to be scheduled / publicist for a year.
At some point the gang realizes the organizer person has expenses so each player puts $10 in the beer fund as nd agrees to chip in again when the money runs low.
At some point somebody finds a place on the shore that can be rented or purchased for storsge
Then a clubhouse happens
Storage for buoys
A committee boat
More committee boats
Cabins for regatta visitors
Training boats
Host the local college team
Host high school teams
Put in docks
Paved parking
Put in wet slips
A work area
A swimming pool
A restaurant
…….
And the sailors who used to meet on Wednesdays snd Saturdays get old and die
Only a few guys remain from those who bought the land for $103,000 and started Austin Yacht Club in 1969
We don’t yet have a restaurant and I hope we never do.
The monstrosity which is our 38 acres of “we need this too” now consumes three full time staff, companies that service our docks, landscape, cabins, accounting, and etc.
It is VERY easy to forget the reason for the place is “we don’t want to have to un-rig and tow our boats home after every race.
USSailing’s primary mission is making it possibke / easier / wonderful to go anywhere in the country and play with our soon to be friends.
Everything else is extra stuff that might be nice but organizing the games is NUMBER ONE and it has to remain the primary focus.
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The kids at Yale thought it would be fun to have a football game with the kids at Harvard.
Certainly classes and learning and graduation were the PRIMARY reason for attendance at their respective schools.
Today, even their sailing teams have paid coaches.
@Curious2 I didn’t know under WS rules a racing club should always be affiliated with the national body with the threat of being banded.
In the UK the RYA really don’t seem bothered . Most clubs are affiliated because they think what they get back from the RYA in support and advice is worth the small fee. But I have been a member of non affiliated clubs in the past and no one has ever cared or raised a question over it . 😀
In the UK the RYA really don’t seem bothered . Most clubs are affiliated because they think what they get back from the RYA in support and advice is worth the small fee. But I have been a member of non affiliated clubs in the past and no one has ever cared or raised a question over it . 😀
Just call those events”clinics” and keep scores to help people improve.
Or ignore them and sail your boats.
I think they'd see through the "clinic" idea, but it's a good one.
We can't ignore them, unless we all give up sailing in other clubs and stop inviting people from other clubs to our regatta. Plenty of us sail elsewhere (we have 20 active members but currently hold one world championship and have two others on the podium, etc)
RRS 75(a) and 89.1 and Regulation 19.20.
We were told that our members "will be prohibited from entering races held by other clubs, be the person in charge, or skipper a boat or regularly crew in a race under the Racing Rules of Sailing."
Are there no antitrust laws down there?
Or change the rules slightly to make it a different game.
There's antitrust laws, but it could be like the system in the EU where they say that sporting bodies can bend those rules.
However, I'd reckon that WS and AS could be seen to take it way to far when they claim to have the right to run ALL sailing at ALL levels, unlike other sporting bodies.
I think they define sailing to include everything from maxis to kites, so it's hard to change the rules to get away from such a wide definition.
I’ve never been to Australia, always wanted to go, scenery looks amazing. But man, you guys have it way worse than we do with all your rules and regulation. I sail to get away from that stuff, it’s such a buzzkill.
Gouvernail
Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
- Thread starter
- #36
The WS claims they own the rules… so change the rules such that by their definition,
“G sad mes contrsted in thst nanner are not being sailed under their rules.”
Example: change a definition. Their rules say you c acc not change a definition. Therefore, sailing with a changed definition is not using their rules,
“G sad mes contrsted in thst nanner are not being sailed under their rules.”
Example: change a definition. Their rules say you c acc not change a definition. Therefore, sailing with a changed definition is not using their rules,
duncan (the other one)
Super Anarchist
I know of an unaffiliated club (maybe same club you mentioned previously?) which often has some reasonably high profile sailors participating in its events.
One way to break the ridiculous anti-trust stranglehold is to call out AS on those sailors, or encourage even more visible and larger participation in the clubs' events.
That absolutely should be done. World Sailing is crippled, they aren’t closing anyone down or banning anyone. They can’t afford the defense costs of a lawsuit, both in money but more importantly reputation.
armchairadmiral
Member
- 183
- 63
R.N.Z.Y.S is apparently $1.6m down .A lot of discontent over A.C departure offshore .i'm not a member but I understand quite a few resignations of well heeled sailors which won't have helped. So that might start a downhill slide as grassroots see that charity begins at home. Just like the Squadron members. Headlines have it that a 'razor' gang is 'fixing' the deficit. Good luck with that ! And I mean that
Very glad the the Rya takes a more relaxed view on this.
Just been on the Rya club affiliation page . It mentions loads of the advantages of joining , race backup, conflict resolution and the fact you must be affiliated to use the race rules ( RRS) Not that it’s ever taken action for non affiliated clubs using them .
Nowhere does it mention it’s compulsory and in fact it goes on to mention it cannot interfere in non affiliated clubs racing as it is out side of their authority.
