Origami Boat Thread

Bob Perry

Super Anarchist
31,915
1,227
Shark:

I'll tell you one of my "secrets". ( I think I cover this in my book)

The sheer is an actual line. The bow profile is an actual line.

The overall height of the cabin trunk measured to the centerline of the camber IS NOT a line. It's a soft tangent. So,your eye never sees a hard, defined line like the sheer. Your eye sees a soft tangent. This means that your eye does not assign the same aesthetic "weight" to the top of the cabin trunk as it does to the sheerline. Meaning the cabin trunk will look lower in person than it does on the drawings where the trunk height IS seen as a hard line.

That's my theory.

.

 

Jose Carumba

Super Anarchist
3,066
0
Pugetopolis
Shark:

I'll tell you one of my "secrets". ( I think I cover this in my book)

The sheer is an actual line. The bow profile is an actual line.

The overall height of the cabin trunk measured to the centerline of the camber IS NOT a line. It's a soft tangent. So,your eye never sees a hard, defined line like the sheer. Your eye sees a soft tangent. This means that your eye does not assign the same aesthetic "weight" to the top of the cabin trunk as it does to the sheerline. Meaning the cabin trunk will look lower in person than it does on the drawings where the trunk height IS seen as a hard line.

That's my theory.

.
I think that's very true Bob. You really don't see the line.

 

cje

Member
497
66
This is very nice. Finally side decks are back in fashion.

I've been holding my laptop in the air, rotating it, looking at the sweet lines. My wife and dog think I've lost my mind.

Do you think the primary outboard islands may hold water when going to weather, deck drains perhaps.

Maybe I need more drawings...thanks for sharing so far.

 

zedboy

Member
257
0
Eastern Med
Shark:

I'll tell you one of my "secrets". ( I think I cover this in my book)

The sheer is an actual line. The bow profile is an actual line.

The overall height of the cabin trunk measured to the centerline of the camber IS NOT a line. It's a soft tangent. So,your eye never sees a hard, defined line like the sheer. Your eye sees a soft tangent. This means that your eye does not assign the same aesthetic "weight" to the top of the cabin trunk as it does to the sheerline. Meaning the cabin trunk will look lower in person than it does on the drawings where the trunk height IS seen as a hard line.

That's my theory.
Good theory. Not explicitly in the book.

 

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
As a cost saving measure (put the pitchforks down guys, not recommending home made winches or anything) could you spec a rig from another production sailboat of similar size, a J120 or something. Would be easier to get sails and spars etc would be off the shelf items as opposed to bespoke. Just an idea.

 

Ed Lada

Super Anarchist
19,179
4,673
Poland
As a cost saving measure (put the pitchforks down guys, not recommending home made winches or anything) could you spec a rig from another production sailboat of similar size, a J120 or something. Would be easier to get sails and spars etc would be off the shelf items as opposed to bespoke. Just an idea.
Maybe you should ask Kim about Frankie's rig.

 

Bryanjb

Super Anarchist
4,413
221
Various
Shark:

I'll tell you one of my "secrets". ( I think I cover this in my book)

The sheer is an actual line. The bow profile is an actual line.

The overall height of the cabin trunk measured to the centerline of the camber IS NOT a line. It's a soft tangent. So,your eye never sees a hard, defined line like the sheer. Your eye sees a soft tangent. This means that your eye does not assign the same aesthetic "weight" to the top of the cabin trunk as it does to the sheerline. Meaning the cabin trunk will look lower in person than it does on the drawings where the trunk height IS seen as a hard line.

That's my theory.

.
Bob, is your deck camber ever taller then the shear? I ask, thinking about your comment about cabin trunk athwartship camber.

 

olaf hart

Super Anarchist
Shark:

I'll tell you one of my "secrets". ( I think I cover this in my book)

The sheer is an actual line. The bow profile is an actual line.

The overall height of the cabin trunk measured to the centerline of the camber IS NOT a line. It's a soft tangent. So,your eye never sees a hard, defined line like the sheer. Your eye sees a soft tangent. This means that your eye does not assign the same aesthetic "weight" to the top of the cabin trunk as it does to the sheerline. Meaning the cabin trunk will look lower in person than it does on the drawings where the trunk height IS seen as a hard line.

That's my theory.

.
So is the perceived cabin height determined by the " eyebrow" trim line or is it higher than that?

I ask because the trim line can move up or down the cabin side, within limits.

 

kimbottles

Super Anarchist
8,055
783
PNW
As a cost saving measure (put the pitchforks down guys, not recommending home made winches or anything) could you spec a rig from another production sailboat of similar size, a J120 or something. Would be easier to get sails and spars etc would be off the shelf items as opposed to bespoke. Just an idea.
Maybe you should ask Kim about Frankie's rig.
We saved a lot of $ on the mast, but our J is longer than the Farr 40 so used sail selection is limited.

 

Panoramix

Super Anarchist
Not sure this is the right place for this. Mother Theresa Pano might accuse me of "spamming" again.
That's OK because presumably this is an Origami boat.

I am glad to see that Bob Farr Perry has finally seen the light and decided to innovate and build boats with Origamied carbone plates. With the stigma attached to steel only lesser mortals could consider Origami but now that it has been made appropriately expensive proper yachtmen with bulging pockets are coming in flocks. The wisest came in early as to cope with demand Mr Farr Perry had no choice but to increase hourly rates to $1500/hour, true innovations like this tend to to be disruptive. When interviewed by Yachting monthly Mr Farr Perry said that more than an innovator he was somebody able to bring into an appropriate package various features that he had observed elsewhere with his superior eye and after bringing the Bristol cutter together with carbon fibre construction, carbon origami was the obvious choice.

Happy? or do I need to try harder?

Joke aside, after being excited by the FL, I yawned a lot at the carbon cutters but I think that this one will get me interested.

 

Bob Perry

Super Anarchist
31,915
1,227
Olaf:

I think so. The "brow" is a hard line with a shadow and done in contrasting teak would have a lot of aesthetic weight. On Frankie we did it composite for practical reasons but I think done it teak would have, along with a teak toe rail it would have completely have changed the look. And the upkeep!

Joli:

Yes, it has to be. If sheer is the intersection of the hull side and deck then the camber is a measurement above that. For me. usually deck camber is .375" to the foot of beam and sometimes .5" per foot of beam. I fudge the center;line of the deck camber forward to be a straight line to avoid the "pig's nose" effect.

cje:

Not sure. But given the run of the trunk sides I think they will drain forward. Either way, I don't see this as an issue.

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
13,659
3,235
If you want to get an idea of just how much 'fudging' takes place on a steel origami hull, it is worth watching the series of videos by a guy named SY SEEKER who built a 65' junk to what I take to be a Brent Swain design. He actually mentions Brent a couple of times in the process of 'ironing out' some of the lumps and bumps at the ends of the chines. Sort of a 'if it don't fit, FORCE IT!' approach.

Forgive me for when I start the video in the link, but I wanted to point out that if a guy goes to this much hard work to build an origami boat, he will have good looking boat babes as his just reward!

http://youtu.be/KThHElXy1bE?t=646

 

Dave Cooper

Member
398
27
Edmonds, WA
Before Bob does his magic act of turning lead into gold by posting the renderings. I would like to post the original drawing of what he had to start work with. He gagged when he first saw it.

http://theperfectsailboat.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1-e1420338553549.jpg

[when it pops up you can scroll the mouse and press control to zoom in and out.

This is a link to a page om my website theperfectsailboat.com

It pops up a big drawing of the first boat that I brought to Bob. The date on the drawing is March 19, 2012 I wanted to build a 40' daysailor/overnighter for Puget Sound. Because of my stroke and blood clotting condition I knew I was not going to be able to go offshore, but I still wanted a custom Bob Perry boat so I could goof around on the water near home.

This was sketch of a bigger Lancer 36, the first big sailboat I had owned. Right after I bought it I had the stroke.

After I got back on my feet, I drew the plan and gave Bob the drawing. The concept is the same as the current boat, long lean, low freeboard, etc.

But Bob did a preliminary plan and we found out I wasn't going to be able to afford it. I gave up on a custom boat and bought a 1978 Tartan 37 keep keel with the plan of fixing it up.

Right after I bought the Tartan 37 my life did another Hunter S. Thompson shift ["the thrill of the fast reverse"] and I found out that our local mass transit bureaucracy - Sound Transit- [sT] was going to take my last asset, my retirement property that I had fought with the City of Seattle and the banks for 7 years to build and had just finished, was going to be taken through eminent domain to make way for the new light rail line.

So right after I bought the Tartan I went back to Bob and said that God was telling me that this is my last chance to build a custom boat I had better grab it while I had the chance. In the mean time I had come to really like the Tartan.

Bob convinced me that I would be better off building a boat with a more conventional interior. So he took my Tartan and streched it out 7 feet over all and 10 feet on the water line and created a masterpiece.

Over time it morphed into more of a cruising liveaboard, becuase since ST is taking my property I will not be able to keep my house in Edmonds by the marina, so my wife and I am moving 25 miles inland to be closer to our daughter. The new boat will now be a home away from home on the water.

I just wanted anyone who was interested to see what and where Bob started with and what he created out of that.

As for HST, it seemed my life was full speed ahead, then the stroke - full speed reverse, then a long recovery and full speed ahead again, then ST takes my only asset by force - reverse again- then full speed ahead on hopefully the last change of direction.

 

Bob Perry

Super Anarchist
31,915
1,227
Dave:'

I didn't "gag". I merely "harrumphed".

Tomorrow Dave Kim and I will show up at the Olympia YC for a talk. I thought I'd bring two clients with me so when someone asks "What kind of a person wants a custom yacht?" I can say, "Funny you should ask. I have brought two living, breathing examples with me." Then I will turn the meeting over to Dave and Kim and I'll sit down and just watch. I have done this before with Dave and Kim as willing accomplices and the crowd loves it.

 
I think I understand Bob's attitude, and at the risk of an insult, I'd say it's because he's spoiled.

He gets to dream up whatever shape he wants for the hull, and the builders just make it happen. I suspect nobody's said "but the material won't bend that way!" to Bob very much (lately). And if they did, they would probably get the same response we're getting about Origami. Sort of like telling a composer "no stringed instruments".

To me, BS's approach is sort of like throwing a bunch of food in a pot and calling it yourself a chef. It may be edible, but it may not be exactly tasty..... 'just how hungry ARE you?"

 

vjm

Member
I think I understand Bob's attitude, and at the risk of an insult, I'd say it's because he's spoiled.

He gets to dream up whatever shape he wants for the hull, and the builders just make it happen. I suspect nobody's said "but the material won't bend that way!" to Bob very much (lately). And if they did, they would probably get the same response we're getting about Origami. Sort of like telling a composer "no stringed instruments".

To me, BS's approach is sort of like throwing a bunch of food in a pot and calling it yourself a chef. It may be edible, but it may not be exactly tasty..... 'just how hungry ARE you?"
I think it's more that Brent is someone who makes their one thing- let's say it's a cherry cobbler. He likes it, his friends like it, some folks like it so much they pay him to teach them how to make one.

If the cherries aren't right, or the ingredients aren't available, then you get a worse cherry cobbler or no cherry cobbler.

Bob is a chef, and I say that as an ex-chef. He takes what other people have done, what he dreams up, the occasion, the customer requirements and makes something uniquely fitting. His customers are pleased. If conditions or customers or his take on things changes, the work changes too. Still delicious, but different to suit the new paradigm.

The world has plenty of room for both the cherry cobbler savants and the chefs. They are both interesting. I find the difference between their approaches interesting. The vitriol gets in the way of enjoying the differences and learning more for me, but I like hearing the other parts of the discussion, both philosophical and practical.

 
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