Our refreshed 1D35 comes out to play.

[LionessRacing]

Money used for sailboats is not an investment.

It's an expenditure.

Financially it's usually an expenditure; as it's not a  (depreciable) capital asset for the vast majority of people. 

 So is college. So is a trip to a lovely place, or a piece of art, all of which are significant costs and have benefits beyond the immediate. 

The investment in your serenity, quality of life and enjoyment is not something you can calculate an ROI on in any manner according to GAAP.  Do people continue to invest in their happiness and expend resources to improve their quality of life? 

 

[Movable Ballast]

Given the price of new boats, refitting a good modern design (like the ID35) is a good call. You get great performance and security for pennies on the dollar. 

Well done. 

With a little practice that boat will be on many podiums. 

 

[SloopJonB]

Financially it's usually an expenditure; as it's not a  (depreciable) capital asset for the vast majority of people. 

 So is college. So is a trip to a lovely place, or a piece of art, all of which are significant costs and have benefits beyond the immediate. 

The investment in your serenity, quality of life and enjoyment is not something you can calculate an ROI on in any manner according to GAAP.  Do people continue to invest in their happiness and expend resources to improve their quality of life? 

An investment is made with the expectation of a future financial return.

Ergo college and art (at least quality art) are investments, sailboats and trips are expenditures.

The "life enhancing" quality of financial transactions does not affect whether they are one or the other. Most money is spent with the intent that the purchase will enhance the persons life - the difference is the expectation of future profit from investments.

 

[SloopJonB]

Given the price of new boats, refitting a good modern design (like the ID35) is a good call. You get great performance and security for pennies on the dollar. 

Well done. 

With a little practice that boat will be on many podiums. 

Implicit in your comment is that you think doing the same with older designs is not a good call.

How about boats like old Albergs, Valiant 40's, Concordias, Hinckleys etc?

Does the same apply or do you think the "hair on fire" pickle dish factor is what determines the worth of the project?

 

[shaggy]

The boat crew was relaxed after the race. we launched the third spin as a test with beers in hand. Sailmaker was on the boat and new sails coming.

Not everything is a race or a lesson. sometimes it is joy to take time and just see how thing goes.

I didn't see any beers...  Like others....  Confused...

 

[Black Jack]

I would like to hear from the original poster or the folks from Entourage about their selection of the 1D 35 platform over other options. I have seen the work done on Entourage and it looks like a new boat. Were there other options considered? What features / specs made the 1D35 the best option for such a large investment? 

The choice of the 1D35 was based on friendship and familiarity.. The skipper of our boat has a good friend who owns Zaa Zaa, another 1D35. The boats have had an active class in SF until pretty recently. The PHRF for the boat at 36 is an attraction. It demands you have to sail the boat well to compete with the J boats. We wanted a Hawaii boat. We sailed on Alpha Puppy, a transpac 1D35 veteran which has proven it can be done on one - this afternoon sail made us secure in our hull choice. The boat is not exactly comfortable or set for even decent cruising. The girl is spartan.

In a move for prudence we went back to factory set up. The original winches were reconditioned and regreased. The sails we used last weekend were from a decade or more ago. They we sawn up to hold some shape. There was rat droppings in the sail bags as we hoisted them. Some of the reserve sails in the cabin were original launch sails. (For the critics of the video - it was the first time we really sailed it- we had 10 people on board, 7 never having been on board ever. I could not go forward to my station as my shoulder remains dislocated ) In a reality check - redoing the boat in costs of time and materials we could got close to a new J99. 

As for the romance of rehabbing a old boat - I have foolishly made it a life passion to bring back boats which should have gone to the dumpster. More is the folly as I have loved doing this with old wooden racers. Without a doubt - Wiser men buy new. I have thrown away thousands of hours doing it. Lovers of classics and sailing nostalgia chose the harder path of bringing a boat back and making it relevant. If I had used some hindsight wisdom - I should bought a j88 for myself instead. All this nonsense would have been avoided for us. In a personal emotional confession, there is nothing as good in sailing as bringing a boat back from doubtful to contender with time, passion, dollars and friendships. Perhaps I found that a bit of suffering with a lovely boat makes the victories of making the starting line so much more sweet - so I keep going with them. Beating the pants off a brand new boat and fleet with an old lively (leading) lady is one of those things so soul satisfying. 

 

[Black Jack]

I didn't see any beers...  Like others....  Confused...

Nonlinear iPhone editing tricks. Next time I shoot, I will edit in camera for purpose of reality.

 

[LionessRacing]

Hinckleys

Yup... 

 

[LionessRacing]

In a personal emotional confession, there is nothing as good in sailing as bringing a boat back from doubtful to contender with time, passion, dollars and friendships. Perhaps I found that a bit of suffering with a lovely boat makes the victories of making the starting line so much more sweet - so I keep going with them. Beating the pants off a brand new boat and fleet with an old lively (leading) lady is one of those things so soul satisfying. 

Hear Hear !! whupping boats 1/2 your displacement and 1/10 your age has a charm all it's own. Doing it with vintage styled boat (and occasionally vintage sails) is worth the effort to see the Clorox bottle drivers get crushed

 

[SloopJonB]

Sloopy, put down your pipe and go out and get some fresh air. Find a girl or something . The thread context is about rehabilitating
a racer. There is even a video for you!  Its not about refreshing an old Valiant.Your inference is way off.    Its not about you this time.  Go build your post count in PA with ED.

Sorry eh?

 

[sledracr]

Money used for sailboats is not an investment.

It's a lifestyle choice.

FIFY

 

[Svanen]

[C]ollege and art (at least quality art) are investments, sailboats and trips are expenditures.

Maybe. But many degrees are not career-enhancing. Indeed, a traditional (liberal arts) college education is not about vocational training; see generally Newman, The Idea of a University (1852).

Art too is a poor example of an investment. Even when the financial value appreciates (which is not often the case), much of that profit is consumed by insurance, conservation costs, and the various commissions (‘buyer’s premium’ and ‘seller’s premium’) levied by auction houses. The only dependable value is the enhancement of the owner’s quality of life.

Much like boat ownership! 

 

[Black Jack]

What is the cost of a new J99?  $200k+?

You can find a completely and newly tricked out 1D35  with distance mods for about $60k

So how much are you into this for?

Here is the thing - we got the boat with the entire deck and coach ground down to the epoxy and fiberglass layer. Since the boat was in Watsonville  at Moores shop it required long weekends to devote there and hours of driving back and forth to bay area. Ron Moore and crew were diligent - it what seemed like a a simple atraight forward job, was a painful 300 plus hour job for them  everyone worked to epoxy, hot and cold fill the deck to keep the project going. In the end the deck was reworked to better than factory and added a heavy frosting of knee reducing non skid - it took months to do as temperatures changed, rains and life slowed down the 18 month process. Every single thing to do on the deck was taken off and had to be remounted,  painstaking placement to the way it was originally, redrilling of new holes , new fasteners, dry mounted and then remounted with sealant and the many other things you need to do. The boom was sanded down and resprayed.  Just that was nearly 700  hours not counting Moore's work. You can guest estimate what that cost to that.

Then there was the trailer, the trailering and then the yard work here in Berkeley. The boat was in the Berkeley marina for 2 months. Rudder and new expensive rudder bearings done,  In another truth - the yard was slow and frankly a bit disappointing.They sprayed a black widow bottom and charged as if the thing was dipped in gold. They discouraged DYI work and the yard shitter was locked after hours. The rigger was competent by also slow as he is a one man show and has many clients. Parts took a while to come homeless who live along the marina and boat pirates roaming the yard made it impossible to leave anything for a moment when one went out of sight,  Over 40 boat bucks for that.

Let's say if you were to pay yourself 75 dollars an hour to do DIY work, plus add the 800 hours of real yard pay work, add the rigger bills and then add up materials, wear and tear on cars, tools and overnight stays, food and extras. This does not include exposures to chemicals, loss of consortium and giving up other things life offerers you so you can rehab the boat. You would be pretty close to a new J99. 

IMHO - Most 1D35s need not be taken to bare hull like this one. And in way a 50 to 60k boat with a solid deck, good motor and sails is a bargain in getting in the sled game. They are fun boats and with some love they are great affordable tickets to ride. I thing they will become a better bargain in the years to come but it does come with all work to be down to keep em safe, floating and fast.

 

[Captain Bastard]

Is that line wrapped the wrong way around the winch drum at 1:58?

 

[mad]

Is that line wrapped the wrong way around the winch drum at 1:58?

looks that way  :wacko:

 

[vdm]

Why didn't you convert it to a sprit?

Maybe the single best thing you can do to a 1D35.

 

[Black Jack]

Why didn't you convert it to a sprit?

Maybe the single best thing you can do to a 1D35.

The symmetrical spin from a recent race proved we could go deeper, faster than using an A sail as similar rated boats. DDW, we were faster than the J who needed to cover more distance. The sprit will come when we develop it from factory form. Since the One design is nearly gone - the boat will be rigged for phrf. We will can go longer if that makes sense or do as others have done.

 

[vdm]

Maybe in a straight windward leeward it helps but with the sprit the boat is much more fun to sail.

Good luck with the project, great to see the boat getting refreshed.  You'll have lots of fun with it.

 

[SailingTips.Ca]

If you're sailing longer courses you can also consider flying an asymmetric from the conventional pole.