Pelosi is flat wrong and this problem must be fixed

Olsonist

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What is the total comp plan number?
I don't think it is a lot more. Critters don't get a housing allowance. They pay for health insurance. They do get a Members Representational Allowance which is basically their office budget from which they can pay for their flights home. They get frankage. Any real estate broker or law partner should aspire to a greater income. Myself, I always aspired to the NBA Minimum.

Jeffrey Ullman once said you should aspire to a medium grade hooker's pay, $100/hr in 1989 or about $224/hr today or about $448,000/yr. Yeah, pay != salary but the idea that our Critters are well paid is ludicrous. And expecting underpaid people to be honest is foolish. At the same time I don't think that paying them fairly would solve all problems which is why a blind trust is such a good idea.

 
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Steam Flyer

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Up thru the middle 1980s or so, every so often, there was a political scandal involving bribery, payola, slush funds, lobbyists providing hookers and blow, etc etc, with various Congresscritters. About every 4th to 11th one went to jail, some random interval it seemed.

That seems to have died out.

- DSK

 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
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New Oak City
quod umbra said:
Remind us again why your boy Shitstain ran for office. You know, the guy with the multiple corporate person bankruptcies and the 3500+ civil fraud suits whose first action after winning was to settle the Shitstain U fraud suits. You know, that guy.
Shitstain? My boy??

Yet again, I did not and do not vote major party, no matter how many times you pretend I do.
Where in that did I say that you voted for your boy Shitstain? 

 

learningJ24

Super Anarchist
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I don't think it is a lot more. Critters don't get a housing allowance. They pay for health insurance. They do get a Members Representational Allowance which is basically their office budget from which they can pay for their flights home. They get frankage. Any real estate broker or law partner should aspire to a greater income. Myself, I always aspired to the NBA Minimum.

Jeffrey Ullman once said you should aspire to a medium grade hooker's pay, $100/hr in 1989 or about $224/hr today or about $448,000/yr. Yeah, pay != salary but the idea that our Critters are well paid is ludicrous. And expecting underpaid people to be honest is foolish. At the same time I don't think that paying them fairly would solve all problems which is why a blind trust is such a good idea.
As someone pointed out, the reason the Clintons were involved in sketchy land deals was that the governor's pay was so low compared to the business world.  Compare the President's salary to a top 100 CEO's. 

 

learningJ24

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Term limits have had the unintended consequence of getting rid of good legislators and opening the door for nut jobs. Would you want a doctor to have to stop practicing after 10 years (actually, that would probably be better for healthcare quality)? Or your attorney? Accountant? Politics is a skill just like any other, we just lived throw the poster child for "Anyone can be President".

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
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Eastern NC
quod umbra said:
And see, that is where your confusion comes from. You actually think people vote for people they don't support and support people they wouldn't vote for.
When you are an "all in" kind guy, party before all else, that tends to happen I guess.
Why do you jump in to defend Trump any time some particularly ugly fact is posted about him?

Why do you -only- attack Democrats, often on completely spurious or at best emotion-based grounds?

I'm not a bit surprised that you claim to not have voted for Orange Shitstain. Very few admit to it, now, and unless the trumpalos win big next fall, in a year NOBODY will admit ever voting for him.

But you certainly support him.

- DSK

 

Olsonist

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As someone pointed out, the reason the Clintons were involved in sketchy land deals was that the governor's pay was so low compared to the business world.  Compare the President's salary to a top 100 CEO's. 
Arkansas gov + law partner added up to around $200k in today's dollars. It kind of reminds me of Clayton Lonetree, a young single marine responsible for guarding the Moscow embassy with consequences to follow. Or priests prevented from marrying with consequences to follow.

 
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badlatitude

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Trading in businesses they are involved with regulating is the very definition of "corruption."

Pelosi's husband is no different. It's also true he made a YUGE pile o'money in Cali real estate before that, but it is not right that he may use knowledge gained from her as an advantage.

That's far from the worst though.

- DSK
I think that anyone amassing a fortune while in Congress has milked the system. I think anyone on a committee that votes on matters that benefits them, should not have that opportunity.

 

badlatitude

Super Anarchist
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quod umbra said:
Ultimately the problem is, how do you stop it? 
Take Madame Pelosi as a perfect example. You think she doesn't telegraph pending legislation to her husband so he can execute trades base on legislation in the pipeline? Do you think Hiliary Clinton really hit it all on her own in Porkbelly Futures?
Even if elected officials had to but their money behind some sort of wall so they could not profit from pending legislation or pending policy changes, you really think they could possibly be shielded from their investments?

I agree it is awkward, and has real bad optics even if pure intent, but how do you fix it?
Further, yes this fails on the side of bad, but man there is a whole bunch of crapthat is really much worsethe political elite do to enrich themselves when they pretend to represent We The People.
We have created a separate class of politician, one that no longer serves its electorate. Oh, they sound the same, but the numbers don't lie. If Congress can't correct this on their own, we should simply vote these people out. That only works for Democrats, Republicans take this behavior for granted. Cleaning up that side of the aisle is a completely different animal. (sorry for the late response, I had a board meeting this morning.)

 

AJ Oliver

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Term limits have had the unintended consequence
Term limits for Congress-critters would also require a constitutional amendment. Not gonna happen. 

And for the US right wing pols, "term limits" are their go-to solution to any and all problems with money in politics, corruption, malfeasance, and etc. 

It is meant to distract you and let the pols keep on keeping on . .

At the state level, term limits have only served to empower lobbyists.  

Don't fall for that scam. 

 

Bus Driver

Cunning Linguist
quod umbra said:
Not quite sure what you are on about now BD.
You suffering some sort of butt hurt??
You edited your comment.  I am just wondering if you had a point to make about the SCOTUS, or did you just have a brain fart?

quod umbra said:
I don't think you and Steaming Pile understand the role of SCOTUS.
What does having a desire to be better have to do with the role of the SCOTUS?

 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
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New Oak City
Term limits for Congress-critters would also require a constitutional amendment. Not gonna happen. 

And for the US right wing pols, "term limits" are their go-to solution to any and all problems with money in politics, corruption, malfeasance, and etc. 

It is meant to distract you and let the pols keep on keeping on . .

At the state level, term limits have only served to empower lobbyists.  

Don't fall for that scam. 
CA has term limits for state legislators and we haven't sank into the Pacific. In fact, Dems have a supermajority in both houses and every statewide seat. Also, I'm not convinced it would take an amendment for term limits to be enforced in state elections. If CA wanted to do it for our Senate + House seats, I think we could without an amendment.

That said, I'm ambivalent as to whether it would be a good idea. Yet my ambivalence is shaken every time I think of Feinstein.

 
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AJ Oliver

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I learned a few things from Intro to Comparative Politics. I remember resource curse well and I remember elite competition.
OH Boy !! A pol sci reference . .  As I vaguely recall from Comparative Politics there is also interest aggregation and interest articulation. 

But note how the hidden assumption there is that the demos has some affect on policy . . 

The US demos lacks that capacity - because oligarchy. 

 

AJ Oliver

Super Anarchist
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Sandusky Sailing Club
CA has term limits for state legislators
Right, terms limits for STATE LEGISLATORS is very doable - 15 states have it now. 

One of them is Ohio, where I reside. The state has become a veritable cesspool of corruption - partly due to gerrymandering, but also because of term limits. 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that if you run a correlation between term limits and corruption, you'll get a positive relationship. 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/term-limits-exacerbate-all-the-problems-with-our-government.html

 

shaggy

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quod umbra said:
And what of a really good rep. Should people not be allowed to vote for competent ones regardless?
If the rep is that good, then they can back the next Great Guy...  No need for the same person to be in there for more than x years, that's why we are here now...   

 

learningJ24

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If the rep is that good, then they can back the next Great Guy...  No need for the same person to be in there for more than x years, that's why we are here now...   
That's a bit like saying employers should only hire "great" employees; just how big do you think the pool is? You're looking for someone smart enough to understand the issues, patient enough to work the system, moral enough to resist the temptations, popular enough to bring in the small donations and high minded enough to do it for less money than in the private sector.  

 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
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Right, terms limits for STATE LEGISLATORS is very doable - 15 states have it now. 

One of them is Ohio, where I reside. The state has become a veritable cesspool of corruption - partly due to gerrymandering, but also because of term limits. 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that if you run a correlation between term limits and corruption, you'll get a positive relationship. 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/term-limits-exacerbate-all-the-problems-with-our-government.html
I tend to agree. Term limits was instituted in CA because of the execrable Willie Brown, basically the Donald Trump of San Francisco. He was Speaker of the Legislature for 15 years before becoming mayor. Think FDR but without FDR. I don't think CA is any more or less corrupt as a result of term limits. The only thing I like about term limits in CA is that it promotes an up or out mentality. That's hard to achieve at the Federal level.

Otherwise term limits are kind of a populist combination of there ought to be a law meets get off my lawn. Americans seem to want to require virginity from our legislators while paying them jack and then watching them through the lens of Fox News.

 

Ventucky Red

Super Anarchist
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I don't think it is a lot more. Critters don't get a housing allowance. They pay for health insurance. They do get a Members Representational Allowance which is basically their office budget from which they can pay for their flights home. They get frankage. Any real estate broker or law partner should aspire to a greater income. Myself, I always aspired to the NBA Minimum.

Jeffrey Ullman once said you should aspire to a medium grade hooker's pay, $100/hr in 1989 or about $224/hr today or about $448,000/yr. Yeah, pay != salary but the idea that our Critters are well paid is ludicrous. And expecting underpaid people to be honest is foolish. At the same time I don't think that paying them fairly would solve all problems which is why a blind trust is such a good idea.
My point... $174K a year and all this shit they deal with, let alone the time spent getting re-elected - not worth it, unless you follow the formula.  For instance:

Two-term Rep. Paul Mitchell (R-Mich.) saw the largest growth in wealth between 2017 and 2018. The former for-profit college executive’s average net worth skyrocketed from $101 million to nearly $180 million. Mitchell won’t seek reelection this November.

Some longtime members of Congress watched their wealth rise to record levels in 2018. Rep. Collin Peterson (D-Minn.) was worth an estimated $123,500 in 2008. The House Agriculture Committee chairman’s average net assets stood at $4.2 million as of his most recent financial disclosure. 

Rep. Judy Chu (D-Calif.) was worth less than six figures in 2008. One decade later her estimated net worth sat at $7.1 million. Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) increased his wealth from $602,000 to $10.7 million over the last decade.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/04/majority-of-lawmakers-millionaires/

 
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