Pendragon

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,193
1,700
Charleston, SC
So when someone spends mega dollars on a new, fast maxi, (like Pendragon) and it proves to be a stinker does the designer/builder kick in and assist with the cost of the mods to bring the boat up to its expected speed? Or is the ower S.O.L.?

 

mr_ryano

Super Anarchist
So when someone spends mega dollars on a new, fast maxi, (like Pendragon) and it proves to be a stinker does the designer/builder kick in and assist with the cost of the mods to bring the boat up to its expected speed? Or is the ower S.O.L.?

They donate the boat to Kings Point and take the tax write off. Then the kids learn how to sail them and do well!

 

DoRag

Super Anarchist
Interesting question.

The designer's rep is clearly on the line with a high profile program like Maclaurin's or Disney's, or when designing a boat for a builder who hopes to sell some, largely based on success on the race course, and make some money to recover the costs of the investment, molds, etc. A recent example of the latter might be the SC 37.

So, let's say the boat turns out to be a bow-wow and you have a mil or so in it. The designger has his rep in it. SA will will be writing articles and tossing poop at the design. In most cases, the designer will recommend some changes, redesign the keel, more or less rig, maybe chainsaw the bow or stern sections and rebuild it to new specs. The owner would not be charged for the redesign, but the builder would have to be paid for the mods.

Been there, done that.

So the owner would now have the mil in it, and perhaps another $200K. At that point he should have a winner, or at least be competitive. The designer is saved the embarassment. And what is an extra $200K for someone that can afford to toss a mil into the boat? The alternative, as suggested above, would be to donate it. In this case you could "recover" 50% or $500k with the deduction. So, you could either opt for spending another $200K or recover $500K of your investment (and probably also have to face an IRS audit and pay lawyers to argue your case).

 
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Trevor B

Super Anarchist
1,937
152
Santa Cruz, CA
I would suggest the number to get to speed is closer to 50% of the original cost. And a year of the 3 year competitive life as well if the boat was meant for the upper levels of GP racing.

 
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DoRag

Super Anarchist
I would suggest the number to get to speed is closer to 50% of the original cost. And a year of the 3 year competitive life as well if the boat was meant for the upper levels of GP racing.

I would suggest the number to get to speed is closer to 50% of the original cost. And a year of the 3 year competitive life as well if the boat was meant for the upper levels of GP racing.
Perhaps. Who knows? It will differ in every instance. My experience was an extra 20% got it to be a seroius contender in the class NAs.

 

Mylar

Member
247
0
Wow, can't make to much out of the results since half the fleet decided not to show up. Considering they were scratch boat and corrected out 45 mins late, maybe those two rudders, are really slow??? And what's up with the spin sock??? Jeeez

 

Delta Blues

Super Anarchist
6,212
1
The owner is on the hook if the boat doesn't perform well. Think about it. How could any designer or builder ever make any money if all boats less than 1st place get money back?

Could you see that in NASCAR or Indy cars? Boo-hoo, I wasn't first at Indy and its all your fault Mr. Designer, pay up!

Another way to look at it is, the owner selected the designer and builder. The owner made the decisions. He oversaw the processes and approved and signed off on everything. How can anyone be pointed at being responsible for poor performance - the builder, the designer, the mast builder, the sailmaker, or a combination thereof? What about the crew he puts on the boat, etc. There are so many variables, that it is hard to determine just where the wheels fell off.

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,193
1,700
Charleston, SC
I figure if you commission a professional designer to make a large, fast, multi-million dollar yacht for you and upon delivery you load it up with sailing pros and those guys can't make it go then the designer got something wrong. The builder follows the specs provided to them. I'm sure the buyer has to sign off on design, but he's just signing off on what the designer is selling to fit the request. As for "you can't expect every new boat to take 1st place." I'm not talking about the lastest go fast production 30 footer. I'm taking about the Speedboats's, Pendragon's, and Genuine Risks's of the world. How many of THOSE are out there in the first place?

 

J.A.G.

Member
476
9
Mylar, I'm guessing you are thinking of the kite socks that stay at the top of the rig until pulled back down over the kite, like for shorthanded sailing. The guys on Pendragon are loading the kite into a sock that essentially zips the spinnaker up like a sausage. Once the kite is hoisted, the zipper is broken at the bottom and the entire wrapper falls away to repack the kite again in later. Kind of like a modern jib bag for a kite.

I hope the program has success from here. There are too few owners on the west coast willing to produce modern offshore machines.

 

Lee G

Super Anarchist
3,323
0
I figure if you commission a professional designer to make a large, fast, multi-million dollar yacht for you and upon delivery you load it up with sailing pros and those guys can't make it go then the designer got something wrong. The builder follows the specs provided to them. I'm sure the buyer has to sign off on design, but he's just signing off on what the designer is selling to fit the request. As for "you can't expect every new boat to take 1st place." I'm not talking about the lastest go fast production 30 footer. I'm taking about the Speedboats's, Pendragon's, and Genuine Risks's of the world. How many of THOSE are out there in the first place?
But arent the boats they are racing against at that level ALSO loaded up with pros?

 

hermetic

Super Anarchist
4,418
190
I figure if you commission a professional designer to make a large, fast, multi-million dollar yacht for you and upon delivery you load it up with sailing pros and those guys can't make it go then the designer got something wrong. The builder follows the specs provided to them. I'm sure the buyer has to sign off on design, but he's just signing off on what the designer is selling to fit the request. As for "you can't expect every new boat to take 1st place." I'm not talking about the lastest go fast production 30 footer. I'm taking about the Speedboats's, Pendragon's, and Genuine Risks's of the world. How many of THOSE are out there in the first place?
Recently, I can think of only 2 programs that seemed to have nailed it right out of the box - Rosebud and RAN.

 

Delta Blues

Super Anarchist
6,212
1
I figure if you commission a professional designer to make a large, fast, multi-million dollar yacht for you and upon delivery you load it up with sailing pros and those guys can't make it go then the designer got something wrong. The builder follows the specs provided to them. I'm sure the buyer has to sign off on design, but he's just signing off on what the designer is selling to fit the request. As for "you can't expect every new boat to take 1st place." I'm not talking about the lastest go fast production 30 footer. I'm taking about the Speedboats's, Pendragon's, and Genuine Risks's of the world. How many of THOSE are out there in the first place?

The budgets for these boats is a nickel dropped behind the couch in NASCAR dollars.

 

usa25889

Member
109
0
SoCal
Wow, can't make to much out of the results since half the fleet decided not to show up. Considering they were scratch boat and corrected out 45 mins late, maybe those two rudders, are really slow??? And what's up with the spin sock??? Jeeez



I was along on that race on another boat. Wind was very flukey, went from full speed to parking lot. The race restarted 2 or 3 times, and died almost completely 5mi before the finish. That race is a very marginal gauge. When the breeze was up at about 40-TWA (for us) and 10-15kts 1/2 way through the channel, she took off. The boat was built with one purpose. To allow the owner and his wife to race to Hawaii together. I have many great friends on the boat and can guarantee it is in very capable hands. I wish them the best.

 

Jason AUS

Super Anarchist
2,279
339
Sydney
What about something like the R/P 63 Limit here in Aus? After the shocker R/P had with Baby Alfa/Shockwave the word is that Limit got her ass chain-sawed before she'd left the build shed for the first time. So in that instance would the designer kick the can?

 

Somebody Else

a person of little consequence
7,692
854
PNW
One of the things that bothers me about the latest Pendragon is that MacLaurin asked for a design that was a departure from Davidson's area of expertise. They have a long history of working together so I understand wanting to stick with someone you've worked with successfully in the past. I wonder where the basic proposal for the latest Pendragon came from, Davidson or MacLaurin?

 

abc

Member
89
0
The scuttlebutt I heard was Scott Dickson was VERY involved with every decision and made a pretty penny along the way.

It's sad to see a great owner get taken for a $5m (and counting) ride like this.

 




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