PHRF: J/29 FROB vs J/29 FROB ODR

LarryMcFlY

New member
Hi,

Does someone know the difference between the J29 FROB and J29 FROB ODR that changes the PHRF handicap?

The PHRF New England's Website indicate 117 and 114. The race committee in my area give me a PHRF of 108 with a -3 sec penalty for the main (leetch) and -3 sec for the spinnaker (1.8X JC) (114 - 4 = 108). But I don't know why 114 is chosen over 117.

A PHRF of 108 seem low to me.
 

Squalamax

Super Anarchist
2,530
69
I believe the ODR rating flies a 163% genoa and longer spin pole. Might want to look on J29 class site, its outdated but might have that information for you.
 

Squalamax

Super Anarchist
2,530
69
Looking at the site, I think its just a longer pole and wider kite. A FROB J dimension is 11.5' and a ODR frac carries a 12.5' pole. Most PHRF regions will penalize pole lenghts longer than J dimension.
 

LarryMcFlY

New member
I fucked up my 12.5 pole years ago and now I use the stock one. Can find a picture of the pole but that was the remains of the spi... Will check it length. I alsochanged the 163% Genoa for a 140% since I sail on the St. Lawrence and 50% of the time we are close-hauled, 50% downwind. So I would see if my PHRF can be reviewed.
Thanks pal, very appreciated.

1656612438042.png
 

Deed

Member
279
7
LO
I fucked up my 12.5 pole years ago and now I use the stock one. Can find a picture of the pole but that was the remains of the spi... Will check it length. I alsochanged the 163% Genoa for a 140% since I sail on the St. Lawrence and 50% of the time we are close-hauled, 50% downwind. So I would see if my PHRF can be reviewed.
Thanks pal, very appreciated.

View attachment 526038

wow, you blew that one up good and proper, didn't you!
 

Nice!

Super Anarchist
4,281
1,125
Victoria, BC
J-Boats tried very hard to make the two versions the same speed. They nearly succeeded. The 3 second difference is just what was established over time based on observed performance. Having raced one against the other, I can say the 3 point difference is about right. The MH is just slightly faster.

A couple of the local FR versions went to code 6 main and spin, and code 4 headsail. This made the rating equal to the MH. The boats were nearly identical in speed, but the MH would point ever so slightly higher, and the FR will run ever so slightly deeper.

More recently I raced on FR with inhaulers, which made a noticeable difference to the upwind pointing performance. Never got to race that configuration against the MH version, or more importantly a MH version with inhaulers, but would be interesting to try.
 
Last edited:

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
37,359
5,065
Austin Texas
PHRF rstings are developed locally by local committees based on the best information those local committees can accumulate, and their very best judgement based upon that information.

If you have any questions about ratings used in your area, simply contact the committee members and ask how they made their carefully considered decisions about whatever rating you seek information.

Absolutely no one else anywhere can more accurately answer questions about local ratings.

Also, many ratings are simply ratings created by local committees over 40 years ago.

If, for example, you believe the J-22 keels and sail plans have improved over the last 40 years more rapidly than the keels and sails for the other boats with which they compete, all you need to do is bring your information to your local PHRF ratings committee. They absolutely love any help anyone can offer to help make their task less difficult.

The entire reason the volunteers serve on those committees is their dedication to creating an even playing field “this year” for ALL designs no matter when the boats were built and no matter how slowly or how fast they go. .
 

Squalamax

Super Anarchist
2,530
69
J-Boats tried very hard to make the two versions the same speed. They nearly succeeded. The 3 second difference is just what was established over time based on observed performance. Having raced one against the other, I can say the 3 point difference is about right. The MH is just slightly faster.

A couple of the local FR versions went to code 6 main and spin, and code 4 headsail. This made the rating equal to the MH. The boats were nearly identical in speed, but the MH would point ever so slightly higher, and the FR will run ever so slightly deeper.

More recently I raced on FR with inhaulers, which made a noticeable difference to the upwind pointing performance. Never got to race that configuration against the MH version, or more importantly a MH version with inhaulers, but would be interesting to try.
I've never seen any MH J29 with inhaulers. Interesting, but will only work with the blade obviously. My boat has a small #3 track on the deckhouse to decrease the sheeting angle while using the #3. It was only effective in ultra flat water, which if you're using the #3 doesn't happen often.
MH's are at their best at the top end of the H1 and #3 conditions.
 

BrightAyes

Member
105
26
All I know is if you live anywhere when do you much better off with the fractional rig them as good down here in Corpus the fractional rigs rule the bay for 30 years
 

Pokey uh da LBC

Anarchist
886
68
Long Beach
I had a fractional J29 with the standard penalty pole (3-sec hit) for several years. We had plenty of success in "one-design" against MHs and in PHRF. But... we sucked in light air.
On the other hand, as the breeze built and the Mast Head boats started flogging their mains or switching to the #2, the tide would turn to the Frac. And in above 18 knts of wind, give me a frac any day.
Seemed like the cross over was around 13-15 knots.
 

jerseyguy

Super Anarchist
Looking at the site, I think its just a longer pole and wider kite. A FROB J dimension is 11.5' and a ODR frac carries a 12.5' pole. Most PHRF regions will penalize pole lenghts longer than J dimension.
And if that happens have the chute cut to the pole dimension and not the J. My Pearson Flyer also had an overlength pole and being new to tge game I cut the pole rather than have the oversized chute. With a 3/4 rig I could have well used the extra sail area
 

Squalamax

Super Anarchist
2,530
69
We sail a mast head out board and are playin with inhauller on the #1. It works....
On the #1?(155% genoa)

Your sheeting angle is pre-determined by the shroud base. Pulling the clew of the sail inboard will only act to wash out your mainsail.
 

Squalamax

Super Anarchist
2,530
69
Well ----- not really. She is faster and a killer up wind.
Against what competition? The fastest J29 in the country (Hustler) doesn't inhaul there #1 inboard. But what do they know, they've only been dominating every OD(well almost) regatta since 1993. It's not necessary, you are not narrowing the sheeting angle. If anything, you're hurting performance.
 

LarryMcFlY

New member
OK you must be the smartest person on the web site.....
You use inhauller with a #1 at close-hauled ? Clew aft the shroud, the jib must fold along the shroud. That really improve performance?

Beside, I sailed a blade for the first time (100-105%) last weekend, alone, reefed main, and I was very surprise to beat the boat's polar: 6.9 Knt @ 10-12 TWS and slightly below 40 AWA. Seems to be a killer upwind sail.
Curious to give a try with the full mainsail and the regular crew.
 
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