PHRF Question: Mixing Spin and Non-Spin Boats


"Dude", in my nearly 50 years of sailing I have seen more than a few horizons...I was referring to the elitist attitudes of some one-designers versus PHRF. As much as I would like to race in a fleet of identical boats, cruising and day sailing a big fat boat is my choice. PHRF allows me to take people out and teach them what sailboat racing is like. At one time, there were six boats on our beer can starting line that were my former crew.
Fat chick's can be fun too! I'm also considering a scooter....
You are confusing the word "elitist" with "enlightened".

Using PHRF to teach racing is akin to a caravaner instructing the next generation of formula 1 drivers.

Good on ya for bringing people into the sport and having fun, that is what PHRF is for.


Super Anarchist
Not everyone wants to run a $100k-1M+ per year one design or box rule program. For those people PHRF is a fine option.

The amount spent even in small one design classes boggles the mind.

It also allows for those who just want to buy the boat they want, not necessarily what fleet is doing well in their area.

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
Eastern NC
Using PHRF to teach racing is akin to a caravaner instructing the next generation of formula 1 drivers.


Yeah, no.

I'm sorry, as much as I disrespect PHRF "racing," I can't let this level of pretentiousness and condescension just pass easily.

PHRF racing at it's best is a good sailing challenge. It's not a serious competitive event because on any given day, some boats (or one boat) will be heavily favored over others just by it's nature and the conditions. But it is still up to the sailor to make it all work.

It is up to sailor to handle the boat effectively, trim the sails accurately, obey all the rules and respect all other vessels, and return with all aboard safe. The PHRF racer is not as engaged in tactics, nor learning arcane points of tuning from his lead competitors, nor reckoning on advantageous sailing angles on the fly from same; it's a somewhat different game.

But all the basic elements are in place, and it is the basics that 90% of us fuck up, and need improving.

PHRF lets you buy the boat YOU want, or that is a great deal, or that your wife finds comfy, or whatever, and bring it out to the race course for some over-structured recreation. PHRF racing is a social event, not a competitive one. If your hormones demand top-predator-level chase-n-slash, then don't seek it in PHRF. But teaching sailing and racing? Sure.

It's not as good as teaching in one-designs (given physically appropriate boats, which is not always the case) but that doesn't make it bad.


Cambridge UK
PHRF or any rating system work well with boats that are similar. I know some very optimised and arcanely tuned PHRF & IRC boats.

PHRF racing in the SF Bay Area tends to build classes out of similar boats that have similar properties (heavy displacement, planing, spi vs non-spi, similar size...)

I think the key is races need to build classes out of similar handicap boats. A 20ft sportboat and a 45ft racer/cruiser shouldn't be in the same class... (even if their ratings are the same).


Super Anarchist
Are you in the right thread?
Not sure what the emergency is. Witer is a little over dramatic. Likely free to a good home. Parts boat?

Courtesy of the Port Townsend Leader

Sunken sailboat prompts emergency

County steps in to remove derelict vessel
A salvage team works to remove a sunken 27-foot sailboat from Portage Canal near the Indian Island Bridge.


Super Anarchist
Myrtle Beach,
Always a fun topic. Watching the J-* boats and other big dinghy’s at CRW was fun, my crew of three grandmothers who helped overnight deliver 100 miles both ways had more fun In PHRF Pursuit. The combination of boats with radically differing speeds, taking angles and agility (think trimaran, Moore 24, Columbia 5.5, and Lioness) can be done on same course, albeit with some angst and drama, Oakland Yacht club runs the “Sweet 16” on the estuary with 40+ starters. Starting & Scoring them together is simply not a good idea.

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