mikehoyt
Member
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Head on a J/27 exists but is very cramped and not terribly comfortable to use if that is a primary requirement. We have one on ours and the ladies do use it but is quite an experience for them
Pick a new club boat/Class building. $20k, 30ft, Northeast US
- Thread starter Jangles13
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alteredst88
Super Anarchist
Pearson Flyer has issues with the original engine. There are discussions about this on most sailing sites. There are several that were fairly heavily rebuilt due to core issues so there is experience on that side as well. The downside or upside is that rebuilt Flyers with even great sail inventories sell pretty cheap. So... If your group will slowly buy boats that have a new engine and maybe core work done they can buy the boats cheap. The downside is that money put into Flyers is pretty much lost. SA had a Flyer with a great PHRF record which was owned by the Hood Sails Boston? owner. The boat had been rebuilt, had great sails, lines etc and he could not sell it. The price kept dropping.
I have seen a flyer with the inboard removed and the shaft exit glassed over. They put a yamaha on the back. This hurts to type but if you all do this...it would be OD and you could have new sails for under $20k. Main, jib spin. Look up rebuilt 2 cycle Yamahas. They were fairly light and reliable. The new 4 cycles are heavier.
This isn't pretty but it is under $20k and local resale should work as there just isn't one design for $20k in a 30 foot fairly dry with interior and head boat. Flyers with the original engine sell for under $10k.
The Catalina 30 with a tall mast starts looking pretty good when we try to get under $20k!
I think you are right about the J29 as the leading candidate.
I have seen a flyer with the inboard removed and the shaft exit glassed over. They put a yamaha on the back. This hurts to type but if you all do this...it would be OD and you could have new sails for under $20k. Main, jib spin. Look up rebuilt 2 cycle Yamahas. They were fairly light and reliable. The new 4 cycles are heavier.
This isn't pretty but it is under $20k and local resale should work as there just isn't one design for $20k in a 30 foot fairly dry with interior and head boat. Flyers with the original engine sell for under $10k.
The Catalina 30 with a tall mast starts looking pretty good when we try to get under $20k!
I think you are right about the J29 as the leading candidate.
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KC64000
Member
Kirby 25 / Kirby 30 - usual wet core problems but cheap. downside is very small cabin (good for kids) and running backstays.
C&C 29 - Mk II would be just above your price but lots around. comfy for racing and overnighting
C&C 30 - varying ages, should be within your budget
CS30 - may be a bit above your budget
make it a JAM class and you reduce the costs and crew required.
C&C 29 - Mk II would be just above your price but lots around. comfy for racing and overnighting
C&C 30 - varying ages, should be within your budget
CS30 - may be a bit above your budget
make it a JAM class and you reduce the costs and crew required.
JustDroppingBy
Super Anarchist
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They are 99 in the Bay as well, and race as part of the level fleet of Olson 30, 34, Express 34 group. Not a perfect OD in all conditions obviously, but close enough most of the time that it's competitive.
At 108, the Olson 30 would be cheating in PH
- Thread starter
- #90
It's looking more and more discouraging, truthfully. As this discussion carries on, the less I think I can talk others into selling their boats when there isn't a great answer to the question. Even moving up to $30k doesn't really solve the problem, and if you drop to $10k the options all but disappear once you get the boats water-ready. Too many needs to fulfill. I've got one other that may put his money where is mouth is, but until then, it's all talk.
So, I went back and re-studied the race results from all the regional events this year. There really wasn't anything with more than 2 of the same competing, let alone anything that met this outline precisely.
None of the following are based at my club, other than one J/105. It's an area of about 120mi of coast I'm looking at, you can do your own snooping through results at: gmora.org
There are 2 J/29s, one is FROB and one is FRIB and they didn't participate in the same events, as they are based some 40mi distance apart. Not world ending, but notable.
I've never seen a Flyer in person, over the 15yrs I've been racing up here, but I suppose that doesn't mean anything ultimately. Just because none are competing doesn't mean it makes it a bad choice. No J/27s to be seen either.
One Tarten 10, modified somewhat, but may be a good one to consider.
J/105s are growing (slowly) around here, but it's a serious budget killer. Too much money to be on the water for only 10 weekends.
There are a couple Frers 33s too, but budget killers. One modified Olson 30 used to be around, but I haven't seen it out recently.
Oddly, there are no C&Cs competing other than a 110 and 37XL
So, I went back and re-studied the race results from all the regional events this year. There really wasn't anything with more than 2 of the same competing, let alone anything that met this outline precisely.
None of the following are based at my club, other than one J/105. It's an area of about 120mi of coast I'm looking at, you can do your own snooping through results at: gmora.org
There are 2 J/29s, one is FROB and one is FRIB and they didn't participate in the same events, as they are based some 40mi distance apart. Not world ending, but notable.
I've never seen a Flyer in person, over the 15yrs I've been racing up here, but I suppose that doesn't mean anything ultimately. Just because none are competing doesn't mean it makes it a bad choice. No J/27s to be seen either.
One Tarten 10, modified somewhat, but may be a good one to consider.
J/105s are growing (slowly) around here, but it's a serious budget killer. Too much money to be on the water for only 10 weekends.
There are a couple Frers 33s too, but budget killers. One modified Olson 30 used to be around, but I haven't seen it out recently.
Oddly, there are no C&Cs competing other than a 110 and 37XL
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- Thread starter
- #91
We have deathly light air at times, and reducing sail area could make us unable to complete even the most modest course some days.
When traveling to events that are not at home base, the competition wouldn't have the same handicapped sail inventory. We can only get one rating per year, and it's hard to justify buying a sail for such limited use, so ultimately you probably wouldn't... thus becoming uncompetitive at traveled events.
Teach your potential owners how to use the club restroom format races so there is a mid day lunch and potty break at the club this also boosts club revenue BTW - then get them on Vipers, Open5.7's, U20 etc this is what many people are migrating in the direction of for racing boats anyway given the running costs are palatable and the racing is lots of fun.
Racing the U20 since the late 90's I really have no idea why anyone would want to race big boats and deal with the costs involved in keeping a big boat race worthy with sails and such. Cruising around on a larger boat doing weekends with the family out on the boat sure but then you also do not need a new jib every year to stay in the top end of the fleet.
Racing the U20 since the late 90's I really have no idea why anyone would want to race big boats and deal with the costs involved in keeping a big boat race worthy with sails and such. Cruising around on a larger boat doing weekends with the family out on the boat sure but then you also do not need a new jib every year to stay in the top end of the fleet.
Another good resource would be the mass bay sailing website. The results for the past few years are archived there and it might be good to cross reference those results for consistent performers.
I own a flyer called Wharf Rat in the Boston area and for the most part have done ok when the breeze drops. When I first got my boat I replaced the main bulkhead and since then it has been bulletproof. I keep tabs on most of the flyers in the area if you are looking for leads, or want to chat about the boats drop me a PM.
Another option to consider is an Evelyn 32.
I own a flyer called Wharf Rat in the Boston area and for the most part have done ok when the breeze drops. When I first got my boat I replaced the main bulkhead and since then it has been bulletproof. I keep tabs on most of the flyers in the area if you are looking for leads, or want to chat about the boats drop me a PM.
Another option to consider is an Evelyn 32.
A J30 with just a jib is still faster in light air than many of the other boats that were being listed. You are going to lose 3-6 seconds a mile (assuming W/L race) in winds less than 10 knots relative to the genoa, but that still leaves a much faster boat than most of the alternatives. Many of the suggested boats were in the 165-180 range.
The problem of traveling is hard to handle. If your region will rate you with just a jib, you will probably be fine at travelled events. if they rate you the same as all other J/30s you are going to have a hard time in less than 10 knots of wind, or you need to have/buy a genoa that you don't use very often.
At any rate, it is going to be a push to try to get any group of boat owners to buy into the same boat. Good luck.
Have you been reading the same thread as me? You are going to recommend an Open 5.7? A boat that is slow, wet, physically demanding, and cabin-less. It does not meet even a single one of their requirements. Perhaps they should consider 49'ers while they are at it. Kiteboards are all the rage.
dolphinmaster
Super Anarchist
The open 5.7 is probably the easiest sporty of all the sport boats to sail right now also cheap and has nearly zero maint. Which means more time OD racing - more time socializing at the Club and less time screwing with an old POS you paid way to much for that needs to be completely rebuilt to offer up any real chance of having OD like racing.
The thing that is making these small sport boats really attractive these days beyond the cheap operating costs is that they are damn close ie even across the course you can put 40 of them on a course and not one of them is physically handicapped by age, builder differences or prior owner modifications done poorly etc. I raced OD J/24's for years and years that wasn't OD racing that was a group of people racing some what similar boats with varying levels of rebuilds, keel and rudder fixes and even rig fixes to address a poorly designed and built boat the newbie who picked up a tired J/24 spent a pile of money on new sails still got their asses handed to them by the boats that had been totally reworked with some sizable time and money invested. That is not OD racing today when you have boats right out of the box that are identical to boats for example U20's built in 1995 going head to head with each other having no major advantages other than the sailors on board. That is why the small sport boats today are gaining lots of momentum given they are really really good OD racing.
First time I ever raced OD where I saw half the fleet split tacks ping the corners and come right back together race after race I was shocked all the years racing OD I had never seen that happen. Its because I was sorta racing OD but not. Antrim 27's was what I was crewing on when it hit me Fuck!!!! This is what OD racing is like. Then a few OD events in the U20 were the same! Some of the closest and most fun racing I had ever seen after that I had zero interest in the old OD fleets out there given I could step on any of the new boats knowing if we sailed well we would be rewarded with a good finish and it wasn't because the owner templated the keel, removed the vermiculite, clipped the mast - modified the bulkhead, installed lighter weight hatches etc etc etc etc.
As I said set up the racing program so you have a proper at the club lunch break ie potty stop and start getting your club members out on the new sporty boats. For day racing and club racing you don't need a cabin all it does is add cost to the boat choice.
SC27 is a great boat though west coast boat he would need to ship them a fair distance. Of all the suggested options the SC27 would be the most OD capable with the closest racing given they have not had any sort of structural issues that impact OD competitive aspects. Spinnaker Sailing in SF had the largest fleet of them Schoonerman built an entire successful business around that boat. Also viewed as a fantastic and highly competitive rough ocean single or double handed machine. The SC27 has a very similar reputation to the far more highly spoken about Moore 24 both boats are highly respected amazing ocean boats and double and single handed racers.
