Potential AC36 teams get talking
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~Stingray~~
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If LE is out, and I don't for a minute doubt that he may have already decided it, then I wonder who is leading the coming meeting between teams who apparently want to then present a unified list of AC36 issues? RC, maybe now on behalf of TT? BA? GTF's Dubois?
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A Class Sailor
Anarchist
NZers seem to have a fairly short memory. Didn't Dalton get rather upset that before announcing the protocol for AC34, Oracle met with 19 teams considering challenging to get their views on boats only to then totally ignore what they said. If Dalton thought it was important for the defender to listen to what the challengers wanted then, why not now? The good news is that Ashby is friends with so many at other teams and as such, will have no problems having decent conversations with them, unlike Dalton who some won't even talk to.
Sailbydate
Super Anarchist
LOL...they can "present" whatever they want...bottom line is they are a group who collectively tried to shaft ETNZ and ganged up on ETNZ prior to and in BDA. And they have ZERO standing to influence any decision the Defender and CoR come to.
They're just meeting to co-ordinate their mea culpas..no big loss if they don't challenge. A DoG match between ETNZ and LR will be just as enjoyable.
Mate, as good as Glen Ashby has been and hopefully will continue to be for ETNZ, bottom line is he works for Dalton. No one is inexpendable. If ETNZ wish to go one way and Glen wishes to go another, they'll part company "amicably"...
In any event, Dalton is on record that just because ETNZ didn't sign the framework agreement doesn't mean they disagreed with everything in the agreement, so it's moot why anyone is saying Dalton/ETNZ won't invite opinions and contributions from potential challengers. The OR-XEROX Poodles are simply trying to present an appearance of strength in numbers, but they tried that throughout AC35 and failed miserably!!
My feeling exactly.....Im not willing to forget or forgive. My feeling is Dalts is not dissimilar
What ever the rules decided they should be fair and balanced. As for preregattas after they screwed us out....they can kiss Dalts ass but there not getting one. My pick UAE will get a major one with italy getting something as well. If some of the syndicates dont like it............tough dont turn up you will not be missed
A Class Sailor
Anarchist
Can't you see that you are being rather contrary with your comments. It doesn't matter how the potential challengers come to their view. Either Dalton will listen to the potential challengers or they won't. Standing is irrelevant.
rgeek
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Mind how you go there Indio. Must be tough getting around town with only one eye!
If this was any other way round there would be baying about how the rules for the next match are being fixing up through preagreement with people who where members of the defenders team less than a week ago! Must of been some strike of lightning the lads from Luna Rossa had to suddenly think of challenging. What a co-incidence they happened to be on hand to make the first challenge and, wow!, they got that written up on that napkin fast!!
What a paragon of sporting integrity that portrays all involved as.
The government just put 5 million into ETNZ. A DoG match would be a complete disaster. For all concerned.
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MoMP
Super Anarchist
Why are people convinced that OUSA are out? This is pocket change to Larry. He's an older guy. He may just be enjoying himself.
people say the cup survived long periods between wars and was just fine. Different time, different funding. Not compatible to today short attention span public.
foiling mono is fucking stupid. Why start all over again. There will be 50s available to buy. Bigger teams can sell their packages, keep the momentum going. I agree with loosing the human hamsters. Steer the design to the course where it will be raced but keep the boat similar enough for smaller or newer teams to build from. and let this one sink in. A bunch of sheep shaggers beat Airbus in foil development..... they beat BMW in control systems and ergonomics. why would they want to walk away from a huge head start moving into 36?
people say the cup survived long periods between wars and was just fine. Different time, different funding. Not compatible to today short attention span public.
foiling mono is fucking stupid. Why start all over again. There will be 50s available to buy. Bigger teams can sell their packages, keep the momentum going. I agree with loosing the human hamsters. Steer the design to the course where it will be raced but keep the boat similar enough for smaller or newer teams to build from. and let this one sink in. A bunch of sheep shaggers beat Airbus in foil development..... they beat BMW in control systems and ergonomics. why would they want to walk away from a huge head start moving into 36?
Sailbydate
Super Anarchist
Well, that's the thing with sheep shaggers. When you're board, you have it for dinner and grab the next one from the back paddock.
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jaysper
Super Anarchist
You are being a bit disingenuous rgeek. Having a challenge in your pocket ready for signing by the commodores who are isolated from the rest of the world is how this has been done since the '88 DoG fiasco. There is nothing dodgy about it and to suggest otherwise is being dishonest.
The issue regarding the rules was always (from my point of view) that they tilted the playing field too much but much more importantly, they kept changing.
ETNZ and LR have exclusive rights to se the rules of the next cup. I hope they consult the other teams, but if they don't then the other teams can choose not to play if they want.
Where they WOULD be justified in baying for ETNZ/LR's blood is if the playing field is too tilted or the rules keep changing like they did this time.
jaysper
Super Anarchist
Foiling mono is stupid TO YOU, the cats were stupid to me. Personal opinion and all.
With regards to us sheep shaggers having beaten Airbus etc. The advantage that this confers is largely gone now because the other teams know a reasonable chunk of our secrets:
1. Lower weight.
2. Hamsters.
3. Only 2 accumulators.
4. Follow the dots.
5. Xbox controller.
6. Plus they got a decent look at our foils when we pitch poled.
I would argue that given how innovative ETNZ have proven to be over the years, that they would get the greatest advantage by changing class rules for EVERY AC.
rgeek
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At lot longer that '88, the first example may even be pre J class. Totally agree a tame challenger has been a feature of the Cup basically for ever.
I'm just saying that criticism of the London agreement as a preagreement doesn't stand up to the reality of how the Cup is, as you point out, conducted.
...
Every feature of the racing that people have blamed on the AC50 would be made worse by a foiling monohull. Significantly, the cost of taking. Really surprised that anyone advocating a mono hull would not be thinking of an existing class like the Maxi 72. That's basically the decision they made in days of yore when they went for the J and 12m classes.
I'm just saying that criticism of the London agreement as a preagreement doesn't stand up to the reality of how the Cup is, as you point out, conducted.
...
Every feature of the racing that people have blamed on the AC50 would be made worse by a foiling monohull. Significantly, the cost of taking. Really surprised that anyone advocating a mono hull would not be thinking of an existing class like the Maxi 72. That's basically the decision they made in days of yore when they went for the J and 12m classes.
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Forourselves
Super Anarchist
Because billionaires have enormous ego's. They didn't get pipped at the post, they weren't beaten by one race, they were destroyed by a team with considerably less budget and resource. It wasn't even close, and for a guy like Larry (Goliath) to be destroyed by ETNZ (David) that must be a bitter pill to swallow, especially given how many obstacles his team threw at the Kiwi's. Now he has no control what so ever over the event he wanted to re shape. He has thrown hundreds of millions of his fortune into implementing his vision which is now in tatters. He has walked away from the several million dollars poorer and nothing to show for it.
~Stingray~~
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Vastly different examples though. Oracle invited those potential teams to talk about it - mostly to gauge interest as opposed to actually receiving opinions openly. Those teams didn't get together and decide they would gang up and try to pervert the long-established challenger of record/defender process as is alleged to have happened in Bermuda post-AC (with, effectively, commercial threats which is what this will be about no doubt since LE is leading it).
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