Precision Sails

[OCS]

I'm surprised lofts are still offering sewn Dacron sails at discounted prices when membrane sail technology has matured and at the moderate price points are only a small premium (20-30%).  Agreed everybody got a bad taste concerning early membrane sails where the Mylar delaminated and the load bearing fiber was eaten by UV and flogging quite quickly.  The skipper I raced with bought an orange (expensive) PBO genoa in the '80's that didn't last one season, ouch.

It's 2020 folks and North is marketing 3Di NORDAC (Dacron) sails using the same composite molding technology that the exotic AC racing sails use with ridiculously expensive carbon filaments.  Sure it's double+ the cost of a sewn Dacron sail but may have 5 times the longevity long term concerning sail shape if cared for.  Do the math folks.  Or not; I've friends who are long term cruisers who point out they don't need the "racing" sail shape because they can accept losing a few tenths of knots under sail.  Well, when *beating upwind* sail shape is a make or break issue,  not a few tenths+- but is the actual ability to make progress to windward at a reasonable pace. Might matter on a lee shore.  They point out the iron genoa is an option;  one friend in particular has sailed south to Panama with shit sails and admits he was under power 75% of the time.  Might as well own an RV.

My point is the North NORDAC 3Di option, although expensive, really isn't long term and should be under consideration for any blue water voyager who likes to sail.

Or you can get a Hydranet panelled sail or Spectra Membrane with far superior fibres for cruising for less than a 3DI polyester sail.

 

[axolotl]

Or you can get a Hydranet panelled sail or Spectra Membrane with far superior fibres for cruising for less than a 3DI polyester sail.

Yes there is competition  in the market but to me the North 3Di is superior concerning longevity.  One thing about the 3Di sails that I don't like is they're difficult to flake and store easily, and must be handled on deck with care.

 

[Jules]

Ever tried going upwind?  Any potato sack can perform reaching or downwind. 

That's what prompted our search for a new head sail.  We've repeatedly exceeded 7 kn off wind with our original Ulmer headsail but sailing upwind takes forever.

 

[Jules]

My apologies for not being clearer, in a traditional woven fabric the cloth is engineered so the fill ( across the roll ) threads are stronger either in number or denier, as well as the being laid flat ( the warp threads along the roll are crimped around the fill threads). This is reversed in warp orientated cloth for radial construction and evened out both ways in balanced cloth. Balanced cloth is the norm now for low aspect sails rather than mitre cut. But a traditional fill orientated cloth suits a mitre cut sail as the load is aligned. 

The issue with mitre cut is that pesky joining seam which is on the bias angle!

View attachment 336272

http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/Articles/July04/PanelPt1.htm

If you were to recommend a headsail for daysails and occasional coastal cruising, what would it be made of and how would it be constructed?

 

[CriticalPath]

My apologies for not being clearer, in a traditional woven fabric the cloth is engineered so the fill ( across the roll ) threads are stronger either in number or denier, as well as the being laid flat ( the warp threads along the roll are crimped around the fill threads). This is reversed in warp orientated cloth for radial construction and evened out both ways in balanced cloth. Balanced cloth is the norm now for low aspect sails rather than mitre cut. But a traditional fill orientated cloth suits a mitre cut sail as the load is aligned. 

The issue with mitre cut is that pesky joining seam which is on the bias angle! 

View attachment 336272

http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/Articles/July04/PanelPt1.htm

Thanks OCS, I understand sailcloth fabric engineering and construction.  I have read Maximum Sail Power too but do not understand the point in constructing a sail to meet leech and foot loads using cloths in a configuration where the leech and foot will have different stretch and stability characteristics, further complicated by that pesky mitre seam where everything meets along one convoluted line.  I imagine it must be quite a task to assemble such a sail cleanly and with proper tension with all those pieces of modern crisp sailcloth coming from different angles and positions!

No worries, carry on.

Cheers!

 

[CriticalPath]

If you were to recommend a headsail for daysails and occasional coastal cruising, what would it be made of and how would it be constructed?

I'm not OCS but I'll chime it too...

For your needs, I like Mack's first quoted cloth but in a simple crosscut construction:  6.77oz Low Aspect Marblehead Weave (by Challenge Sailcloth) is an excellent choice for your use.  Triradial construction (or god forbid mitre cut!) are probably not worth the added expense (due to added labour and waste) for your needs.  Sunbrella UV cover's a no-brainer in Florida, but I wouldn't bother with a foam luff - others will disagree.

Sail construction will look sorta like this (plus Sunbrella along the leech and foot:



Any North American sail loft should have access to Challenge's Marblehead cloth (except North who use their own proprietary woven cloths), so spec it out to a few and see what kind of responses you get.  The engagement and/or info you receive should help you make your decision on who to give the order.

Cheers!

 

[crankcall]

Just a thought have any of you American folks considered shopping for sails up here in Canada? there are a couple small lofts here near Toronto/ Hamilton that do nice work and your dollar is worth $1.34 in Canada. 

And anybody shopping right now for a dacron sail , get a fresh quote. The sail cloth (a commodity) is down in price as of last week and my quote for a new #3 , dacron with verticle battens so it will work on a furler went down $120. , yes thats peanuts, but they are my peanuts

 

[OCS]

If you were to recommend a headsail for daysails and occasional coastal cruising, what would it be made of and how would it be constructed?

Daysailing and coastal cruise- longevity, handling, reliability, reasonable performance and cost are probably the requirements.

cross cut Dacron of a mid to top end quality from Dimension, Contender, Challenge or Bainbridge would suffice, just avoid the real budget cloths that are hidden under misleading monikers like High Performance, Premium Plus or Supercruise.

 

[sail69]

Just a thought have any of you American folks considered shopping for sails up here in Canada? there are a couple small lofts here near Toronto/ Hamilton that do nice work and your dollar is worth $1.34 in Canada. 

And anybody shopping right now for a dacron sail , get a fresh quote. The sail cloth (a commodity) is down in price as of last week and my quote for a new #3 , dacron with verticle battens so it will work on a furler went down $120. , yes thats peanuts, but they are my peanuts

Crank...what are those lofts names?

 

[CriticalPath]

Crank...what are those lofts names?

Bay Sails in Hamilton:  Used to be a Haarstick loft, owner Keven Piper is a great and creative sail designer, cloth selections are excellent,  and sail quality is very good.  I’m a satisfied customer.  Contact info at http://baysails.ca/ and more on their Facebook page.

Triton Sails in Port Credit:  Small independent that made some pretty nice sails long ago, IMO now turn out nice enough triangle shaped products that’re locally made for budget conscious cruisers.  Contact info at http://www.tritonsails.com/.

Cheers!

 

[crankcall]

CriticalPath beat me to it,  Triton loft makes sails for some of the boats in my fleet. Those boats often win however there is much more in play on those boats than the sail package. They may do well with potato sacks. The owner is a really nice guy if that makes a difference.

Bay Sails, Hamilton has been making sails for me for years, I'm quite happy. The owner / designer also does design work for other lofts so he 'gets it' . He has a couple world championships to his name and sails a bit on the carribean circuit so he knows what's current . 

 

[jesposito]

Wow.  A promo vid that actually would make even a newb' sailor go elsewhere.  Truly awful.  Their website doesn't inspire confidence, here's an alleged pic of their highest end racing carbon main:

View attachment 334293

Oh wait, that's a pic of their base model Dacron offering, viewable when you click on Racing Mains.

Nice wood pile cover

 

[jesposito]

Very happy with my 140% 

View attachment 333677

Go figure, look at the POS is flying from

 

[Kevlar Edge]

God the spinnakers and mains they make suck, that Genoa is garbage. It’s amazing that in this day and age with the current technology that a company can make such poor examples of sails. The art form formally known as sailmaking has been lost by some companies. 

 

[SCANAS]

These guys would really benefit from putting one good sailmaker on quality control / shop foreman style work. It would drastically increase the quality of product & not add a lot of cost. 

 

[poncho]

Is that what you call "speed wrinkles"

called 'incompetence" wrinkles