Prop guards on junior sailing chase boats

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
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It's not really selling it...

It's all well and good if you know the net is going to be off the stern, but what about the one you run over? I think this is designed for something very specific, and there's a reason that no big manufacturer does it.
It is an outlandish problem looking to be a solution. Somehow all those draggers and trawlers never needed props in the bow...

...there is also this thing called an inboard engine, and also a stern well, for instance a notch as in a semidory...so you can actually get to the damn thing.

 

PaulK

Super Anarchist
Might be worth noting that those mullet skiffs are taking kids out on field trips to see what they can find in the nets.  Imagine a bunch of them all crowded around the transom, jostling each other and getting tossed around by the occasional wave. Falling in might be very easy -- an even better reason the get the prop away from the back of the boat. Does seem like it would make steering unusual, however.  A bit like driving a car in reverse all the time. 

 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
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Jet drives suck. At the end of the day, proper training and safety protocols with zero tolerance are the right answer. 

 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
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2,712
It’s actually pretty stupid when you think about it. Anybody want to grab a random powerboater and let them helm your sailboat on a busy starting line?  It works both ways. We’re asking sailors to drive powerboats. Like it or not, there’s some real skill involved in the low speed, close quarters maneuvers. Most instructors get pretty good, but they’re pretty much learning on the job. 

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,586
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Eastern NC
It’s actually pretty stupid when you think about it. Anybody want to grab a random powerboater and let them helm your sailboat on a busy starting line?  It works both ways. We’re asking sailors to drive powerboats. Like it or not, there’s some real skill involved in the low speed, close quarters maneuvers. Most instructors get pretty good, but they’re pretty much learning on the job. 
Not if the program is intelligently run.

Considering the liability, you'd have to be both stupid and crazy to NOT invest some time in training. When an accident occurs, you don't want to be explaining to a judge/jury how you didn't think it was worth the man-hours to train your instructors in how to safely operate a motorboat. Unfortunately USSA Level 1 does not include motorboat oeprator's training any more.

Plus, having them know how to drive makes day-to-day operations go smoother and the shift-throttle units last a lot longer. I make junior instructors back up thru a zig-zag course of buoys , while yelling at them to mind to anchor ropes... I have other methods of putting them under stress while they're practicing, one of the parents suggesting shooting a starter pistol (blanks) at unpredictable intervals but that might be going too far. And of course I tell them that I am going to stress them, but at least half still finish the day convinced I'm one of the world's prize assholes. Little do they know...........

FB- Doug

 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
11,079
2,712
Not if the program is intelligently run.

Considering the liability, you'd have to be both stupid and crazy to NOT invest some time in training. When an accident occurs, you don't want to be explaining to a judge/jury how you didn't think it was worth the man-hours to train your instructors in how to safely operate a motorboat. Unfortunately USSA Level 1 does not include motorboat oeprator's training any more.

Plus, having them know how to drive makes day-to-day operations go smoother and the shift-throttle units last a lot longer. I make junior instructors back up thru a zig-zag course of buoys , while yelling at them to mind to anchor ropes... I have other methods of putting them under stress while they're practicing, one of the parents suggesting shooting a starter pistol (blanks) at unpredictable intervals but that might be going too far. And of course I tell them that I am going to stress them, but at least half still finish the day convinced I'm one of the world's prize assholes. Little do they know...........

FB- Doug
I think we’re on exactly the same page. Read one post up from the one I replied to. 

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,586
10,275
Eastern NC
I think we’re on exactly the same page. Read one post up from the one I replied to. 
yes!

Jet drives suck. At the end of the day, proper training and safety protocols with zero tolerance are the right answer. 
Some folks have different ideas about what consists of "proper training" though. Mine is, if you didn't bleed and/or cry at some time during the process, you're not really training.

;)

I'm also not a fan of jet drives, adding an SUP paddle is a good idea. I've been on several small lakes where they are used for enforcement and seen them try to use them for some safety purpose... useless for towing, for one thing. Although with an added rudder and lots of training so the driver didn't expect it work like an outboard boat, I've thought they might be good for some coaching things. Not a total replacement though.

FB- Doug

 

PaulK

Super Anarchist
Not if the program is intelligently run.

Considering the liability, you'd have to be both stupid and crazy to NOT invest some time in training. When an accident occurs, you don't want to be explaining to a judge/jury how you didn't think it was worth the man-hours to train your instructors in how to safely operate a motorboat. Unfortunately USSA Level 1 does not include motorboat oeprator's training any more.

Plus, having them know how to drive makes day-to-day operations go smoother and the shift-throttle units last a lot longer. I make junior instructors back up thru a zig-zag course of buoys , while yelling at them to mind to anchor ropes... I have other methods of putting them under stress while they're practicing, one of the parents suggesting shooting a starter pistol (blanks) at unpredictable intervals but that might be going too far. And of course I tell them that I am going to stress them, but at least half still finish the day convinced I'm one of the world's prize assholes. Little do they know...........

FB- Doug
Besides mounting prop guards on all our Jr. Program powerboats, our club also provides powerboat training for Instructors.  Both Level 1 and Level 2 were covered last I looked. If USSailing has repackaged the powerboat courses into an introductory boat-handling course and a more emergency situation course,  we'll adapt accordingly.  Beyond this, our club has also been holding safety drills that coordinate efforts of the local Coast Guard station, two or three local Police departments (boats from our harbor might end up in the towns next door), and the in-town ambulance services. These drills have shown where problems can arise in counting capsized boats, identifying crew, and getting injured people to the care they need as quickly as possible.  When a thundersquall hits an 80-boat Opti regatta, we hope this sort of practice will help us avoid problems.    

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,586
10,275
Eastern NC
Besides mounting prop guards on all our Jr. Program powerboats, our club also provides powerboat training for Instructors.  Both Level 1 and Level 2 were covered last I looked. If USSailing has repackaged the powerboat courses into an introductory boat-handling course and a more emergency situation course,  we'll adapt accordingly.  Beyond this, our club has also been holding safety drills that coordinate efforts of the local Coast Guard station, two or three local Police departments (boats from our harbor might end up in the towns next door), and the in-town ambulance services. These drills have shown where problems can arise in counting capsized boats, identifying crew, and getting injured people to the care they need as quickly as possible.  When a thundersquall hits an 80-boat Opti regatta, we hope this sort of practice will help us avoid problems.    
That is excellent. We have worked toward that kind of coordination but it's difficult.

For a short while today I helped string new "buddy lines" on our clubs new pilings, and was saddened to watch the power boat handling of the crews on the water. We need training for everybody, not just sailing instructors. But you gotta start some where.

FB- Doug

 

PaulK

Super Anarchist
That is excellent. We have worked toward that kind of coordination but it's difficult.

For a short while today I helped string new "buddy lines" on our clubs new pilings, and was saddened to watch the power boat handling of the crews on the water. We need training for everybody, not just sailing instructors. But you gotta start some where.

FB- Doug
Our club manager has a great time with this event.  He sets it up on a day that everyone can make it, then imagines what could happen. I don't know how they run the radio traffic to make sure everyone knows it's a drill, but IIRC the last time they pretended there was a squall that capsized five three-person boats  and sent them all over the place while the rest of the 27-boat fleet returned to harbor OK.   (27 boats in the fleet, minus five, means 22 returned OK.). Fifteen lifejacketed "crew"  (Labeled volleyballs) were left in the water in various spots and had to be found, identified by name, and helped according to whatever problem they had indicated on the label by the first responders. Some had gashes from booms, some hypothermic, some panicked, some major bruises, some broken bones...  Onshore personnel had to coordinate who needed help most urgently and how to best get them in to EMT's , without reducing resources available on the water which were still needed to find all the victims.  I think we've done this three or four years now, with different scenarios each time. .   

 




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