Protocol for the 37th America’s Cup

shebeen

Super Anarchist
Is that not the case now? The D and C can decide the future. That’s never changed.
the protocol for AC37 includes pre-conditions for AC38.

That's never happened before,

Sir Ben signed up for a similiar agreement along with everyone else for AC35, GD said it was bullshit then, now he's signing it with Sir Ben. and putting a financial penalty on it.

200.webp


but you knew that already, but can't walk back the talk now so it makes you have to contradict yourself.

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
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the protocol for AC37 includes pre-conditions for AC38.

That's never happened before,

Sir Ben signed up for a similiar agreement along with everyone else for AC35, GD said it was bullshit then, now he's signing it with Sir Ben. and putting a financial penalty on it.



but you knew that already, but can't walk back the talk now so it makes you have to contradict yourself.
No he didn’t. What they tried to sign was a framework that had nothing to do with the protocol or DoG, which is EXACTLY what Dalton was talking about. The Framework had nothing to do with the Mutual consent clause in the DoG. It was not part of the protocol either. It was an attempt to dictate the future of the America’s Cup by circumventing the Deed and the protocol every challenger had signed up to. I don’t blame Dalton for turning it down. Either put it in the protocol or fuck off. The protocol was signed and agreed to. Either go through the proper process or fuck off.

 

shebeen

Super Anarchist
No he didn’t. What they tried to sign was a framework that had nothing to do with the protocol or DoG, which is EXACTLY what Dalton was talking about. The Framework had nothing to do with the Mutual consent clause in the DoG. It was not part of the protocol either. It was an attempt to dictate the future of the America’s Cup by circumventing the Deed and the protocol every challenger had signed up to. I don’t blame Dalton for turning it down. Either put it in the protocol or fuck off. The protocol was signed and agreed to. Either go through the proper process or fuck off.
blah blah blah potato potarto

ps. it's kind the same thing. 

 

JALhazmat

Super Anarchist
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What!? Blind following of rules!? How can this even be a thing!? You think sports people should be able to pick and choose which rules they want to follow and which rules they don't?

Why don't they just give Oracle's trophies back? After all, they may have not wanted to follow the one design rule.

Why doesn't Lance Armstrong get all his trophies back? After all, sport doesn't need a doping rule right?

Why not let Olympic athletes take any PHD they want? Who needs a fair competition right? 

Let the Russians and their state sponsored doping program enter the Olympics, because thats a stupid rule right?

Why not get rid of the class rules in Olympic sailing and let Giles Scott in his Finn boat, go up against Pete in Te Rehutai? Who needs class rules right?

Why not just get rid of the Deed of gift if you want no rules at all? Why not just say the cup is always to be challenged anywhere, anytime, by anyone at any venue in any hemisphere in any boat at any cost?

Do you realise how chaotic sport would be without rules?

What an absolute Ludacris thing to say! Rules are there for a reason. Otherwise sport would be impossible. Just because you don't like the rules does not mean the rules shouldn't be followed.
Pete vs Giles man on man Finn vs teehheee,  each boat sailed single handed? Petes getting smashed.. you right it wouldn’t be fair:) 

 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
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blah blah blah potato potarto

ps. it's kind the same thing. 
It's even worse, because now it's against the Deed.
The LA was just a letter of intent, whereas the protocol is laying out rules for a challenge that is not allowed it be entertained yet. An extremely worrying move by the RNZYS/ETNZ/GD and CoR.

 

shebeen

Super Anarchist
It's even worse, because now it's against the Deed.
The LA was just a letter of intent, whereas the protocol is laying out rules for a challenge that is not allowed it be entertained yet. An extremely worrying move by the RNZYS/ETNZ/GD and CoR.
i agree with you, in the first instance it was a gentleman's agreement, this time round it's essentialy transparent blackmail with the penalty.

there's pros and cons to what Larry/Russel and Ben/GD have been trying to do here.

it's a balance between ensuring continuity and respecting the oddities of the DoG.

part of me would like to see the AC37 winner testing it (in court) 

Ben has been behind it both times, but the flip flop of ETNZ is quite remarkable.

 

enigmatically2

Super Anarchist
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i agree with you, in the first instance it was a gentleman's agreement, this time round it's essentialy transparent blackmail with the penalty.

there's pros and cons to what Larry/Russel and Ben/GD have been trying to do here.

it's a balance between ensuring continuity and respecting the oddities of the DoG.

part of me would like to see the AC37 winner testing it (in court) 

Ben has been behind it both times, but the flip flop of ETNZ is quite remarkable.
The other big difference was that last time you could enter and choose whether or not to sign up. This time its a condition of entry. That to me is where it is absolutely worse. And the hypocrisy compared to ETNZs statements last time is mind-boggling

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
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blah blah blah potato potarto

ps. it's kind the same thing. 
But thats what the ETNZ reply to that LA stated.

The future should be decided by C and D, by virtue of the DoG, and protocol, the way it is supposed to be done in the AC.

Not some random document with no substance.

In the AC, it either IS the same or it ISN'T.

There's no "kinda"

In this instance its not the same.

 
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Forourselves

Super Anarchist
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New Zealand
The other big difference was that last time you could enter and choose whether or not to sign up. This time its a condition of entry. That to me is where it is absolutely worse. And the hypocrisy compared to ETNZs statements last time is mind-boggling
You could also sign the LA and not be bound by it, so there's really no point in signing it.

It had no substance.

 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
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But thats what the ETNZ reply to that LA stated.

The future should be decided by C and D, by virtue of the DoG, and protocol, the way it is supposed to be done in the AC.

Not some random document with no substance.

In the AC, it either IS the same or it ISN'T.

There's no "kinda"

In this instance its not the same.
So you already know who the D and C for AC38 are? I'm impressed. Care to tell me next week's lottery numbers?
 

You could also sign the LA and not be bound by it, so there's really no point in signing it.

It had no substance.
Bold: right.

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
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Gawd. Larry and Ernesto gamed things but at least they put on a good show and didn't publicly whine.  Can't believe I just wrote that but GD and kiwikoolaid are just too much whinging.

 

Fiji Bitter

I love Fiji Bitter
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Gawd. Larry and Ernesto gamed things but at least they put on a good show and didn't publicly whine.  Can't believe I just wrote that but GD and kiwikoolaid are just too much whinging.
C'mon Clew, Larry and Ernie put on the biggest AC whingers show ever, all the way to the very public High Court. And then fucked over all the other challengers.

And the true whiners here are the haters, right in this forum. Get real.

 
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Raz'r

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Gawd. Larry and Ernesto gamed things but at least they put on a good show and didn't publicly whine.  Can't believe I just wrote that but GD and kiwikoolaid are just too much whinging.
I'm pretty sure Russell and the boys whined mightily when EssEff told them to fuck off. 

 

floater

Super Duper Anarchist
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but GD and kiwikoolaid are just too much
funny you say that. this notion of Dalton handing out Kool-aid just seems to fit so well. I've never written a play before - so apologies in advance, but here goes:

Dalts: "Of course we can't sail our regatta in the City of Sails" - hands out Kool-aid.

Drinkers: "Ah, them Saudi's actually ain't so bad.." - slurp.

Dalts: "If we have to sail in the City of Sails, TNZ will fold within the hour" - hands out Kool-aid.

ABNZYS: "Why that's just fine Dalts, whatever you say" - slurp.

idk. but what seems to make common sense to one person, just ain't business sense to another - or - what strikes one ear as utter bullshit, might strike another as simply the way it needs to be.

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
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C'mon Clew, Larry and Ernie put on the biggest AC whingers show ever, all the way to the very public High Court. And then fucked over all the other challengers.

And the true whiners here are the haters, right in this forum. Get real.
But it wasn't about not getting enough public subsidy it was about the terms. 

I'm pretty sure Russell and the boys whined mightily when EssEff told them to fuck off. 
LE didn't get his way with SF on a lot of things including developing piers and shoreline properties. AFAIK he didn't pull the Cup and ship it out for 2013.  Saved that for 2017. And look what happened...he and the boys got their terms but didn't have the fastest boat despite hanging out at the venue well in advance.

I wasn't a Kiwi Hater but am sick of the drama. It's a small country soap opera, undignified and not directed well. Bo-ring.

 
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