Putin is losing his war badly, so bad he threatened nukes. What should the response be if he does?

D

Deleted member 149385

Guest
It is interesting that Russia and the US have both lost conventional wars, but up to now neither threatened to use nukes. The fact that Putin is playing this card now suggests this war is about his legacy as he knows he will lose power soon. He is weak and grasping at straws to try to fix this big miscalculation.

He must be stopped at any cost. Even that one.
what do you mean suggests? please rookie. you cant be as stupid as the respondents.
 

phillysailor

Super Anarchist
8,501
3,328
My apologies Steamers!

If Putin has fired many of the generals who have failed Russia for incompetence and is now taking over day to day tactical control he’s gonna lose focus on the running of the country stuff.

Reminds me of the three envelopes given to the successor of high office. Looks like Putin is getting set up to open that last envelope.
 

phill_nz

Super Anarchist
2,986
943
internet atm
i cannot fathom any logic in always folding to a bluffer
people that keep advocating it as the best / only option must be severely mentally impaired
it's just such a pathetically stupid idea

the negative consequences of which would last for ++decades
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,091
9,526
Eastern NC
My apologies Steamers!

If Putin has fired many of the generals who have failed Russia for incompetence and is now taking over day to day tactical control he’s gonna lose focus on the running of the country stuff.

Reminds me of the three envelopes given to the successor of high office. Looks like Putin is getting set up to open that last envelope.
We're good.

Putin is a mid-level spy, he succeeded by being more brutal than his competitors. This is not a recipe for success as leader of a country that is definitely NOT G-8 material but happens to have a huge legacy military and the world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. Of course, we could write along list of major countries suffering failure of leadership. It's almost like we are struggling to keep the concept alive at all.

Meanwhile, for the audience, here's the 3 envelopes thingy-

The tale of the three envelopes...

A young man had just been hired as the new Executive Director of a nonprofit organization. As he entered his new office for the first time, he noticed a large envelope in the center of an otherwise bare desk top.

Curious, he opened the large envelope and found three smaller envelopes along with a note. It was written by the previous ED.

“Congratulations on your new position,” the note read. “I wish you much success!”

Then it continued. “My predecessor gave me three very sage pieces of advice when I was where you are--just beginning my journey as an ED. And now I want to pass those on to you.”

“Enclosed are three numbered envelopes. Whenever you find yourself facing an impossible problem, open one and follow the instructions inside. Be sure to use them in sequence.”

Well, as is usually the case, the first year went very smoothy. Staff, eager to impress, took every assignment and completed it with gusto. The board, thirsty for change, accepted every suggestion for operational effectiveness. Things were great during this “honeymoon” period.

The first envelope​

One day the honeymoon was over.

The annual gala significantly underperformed budget expectations. When the final numbers were tabulated and it was time for the board report, the picture wasn’t pretty. Remembering the advice, the ED found the envelope marked “1” and gently opened it.

“Blame me, your predecessor.”

Our young friend did blame his predecessor. “The last guy organized the costs of the event in a very unusual way,” his story went. “I didn't fully understand it, and that's why expenses are so far over budget."

"Now that I’ve been through it one time--and I’ve got a better feel for what all is involved--it won’t happen again.”

All was forgiven and things went rolling along again, as smooth as before.

The second envelope​

Under the ED’s direction, the organization introduced a bold new program. Board and staff alike were full of excitement. Our ED friend invested a great deal of time and resources into the venture, sure it would be a smashing success.

Unfortunately, registrations fell dramatically short of projections. What’s more, participants were brutally critical in post-program surveys. It was an unmitigated disaster.

With no place to hide, the ED found the second envelope and ripped it open. It read:

“Admit your mistake, beg for forgiveness, and assure everyone it will never happen again.”

Well, our friend did admit his mistake. And he was forgiven.

The third envelope​

Another year went by with hardly any issue.

Then it came time to renew a major funding agreement with the big Foundation. “We’ve got nothing to worry about,” our executive assured anyone and everyone. “I speak regularly with the program officer. She loves what we’re doing and thinks the value is obvious.”

“A renewal of our grant is a sure thing,” he said.

He met with the program officer, who did in fact sing the praises of our executive’s organization.

“Now that you’ve established a successful model,” the program officer explained, “our board is changing course to focus on other important problems. With the success of your program, we feel it will be easy for you to find someone else to pick up the funding baton and run with it.”

The ED was crushed. Not only was this a major funding hit, but more importantly he had put his entire reputation on the line. He hurried back to his office, shut the door, and ripped open the third envelope in a panic.

The message said:

“Prepare three envelopes.”
 

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,209
So, what you're saying is, after Putin is defeated we need to take away Russia's nukes. Every one. And install a regime of inspection to make sure they don't build any more.

Now, what's the plan for Iran and North Korea?
Nope, not saying that.

We have the NPT for arsenal reduction, of which Russia has been compliant, and the NPT has the IAEA, to do the inspections and verify compliance. The "regime of inspection" is already there and it works well. If we can all stick to the process of the NPT, we can reduce our stockpiles and eventually -- likely after guys like you and I are toe-up in the ground -- go post-nuclear.

We can't "take away" Russia's nukes because that would both violate the treaty and it would be impossible to take away all the nukes from a nuclear-armed country, they have many hidden away and they would use those nukes when their sovereignty is violated anyway. As for Iran and North Korea (and also India, Pakistan and possibly Israel) who are all NPT non-signatories, that's a more difficult process, but it isn't impossible. In the case of India, Pakistan and Israel, they would likely to go post-nuclear if they had sufficient security assurances. North Korea and Iran are a different problem, they can be "starved" of nuclear capacity in an NPT compliant world, if it is even necessary by then. Full sanctions could unfortunately starve those countries, they could be encircled with anti-missile tech and eventually even invaded. It sucks, but the world needs to go post-nuclear.

And the prospect of invalidating North Korea or Iran is less of a problem than doing that forcibly to Russia.

Finally, something about Russia; they were not just compliant with the NPT, but they worked well with the USA to handle fissiles from USSR stocks, we had a decent agreement with them to help them manage them and repurpose them, monitored by the IAEA. Yes, Putin is not the same guy now that he was back when he wanted to join NATO, now he is fucking maniac, but he won't live forever.
 
D

Deleted member 149385

Guest
Morons on this post. With pretensions of intelligence really, I’m stunned at the level of pretension.
 

ShortForBob

Super Anarchist
34,863
2,772
Melbourne
We are all old.
Maybe we should ask all of our kids Russian kids, French Kids, Chinese kids if we should respond in kind to Putin's Nuke threats.
It won't be our world to live in regardless of whether it glows or swims in vodka.
 

Ease the sheet.

ignoring stupid people is easy
19,927
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History has proven you wrong, Steamers.

When Russia invaded in 2014, Ukraine was powerless to protect itself, let alone take back lost ground.

In 8 years, thanks to investment by NATO, and the support of many democracies, Ukraine has not only defended itself, but has badly wounded an authoritarian regime.

Democracy has shown itself to be so powerful that it took a 98 pound weakling and taught it to fight a superpower.
Democracy?

That's a stretch...
 

3to1

Super Anarchist
anyone have a sense on how close the global community might be to calling that evil little ratfuck's nuke bluff?
might I suggest calling it. then grind the little fuck up into dog food and serve it at the next CPAC.
 
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Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,163
2,037
Wet coast.
We are all old.
Maybe we should ask all of our kids Russian kids, French Kids, Chinese kids if we should respond in kind to Putin's Nuke threats.
It won't be our world to live in regardless of whether it glows or swims in vodka.
Most of the people I know under 30 have no idea how close we are to nuclear winter. If you asked them they wouldn't know what you were talking about.

We don't have a choice in this matter, anyway - now that Putin has shown that his intention is to re-establish the Soviet empire, we have to continue until Ukraine wins all its territory back. All of it, including Crimea. If he is not stopped now, the Baltic states will be next.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,091
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Eastern NC
Most of the people I know under 30 have no idea how close we are to nuclear winter. If you asked them they wouldn't know what you were talking about.

We don't have a choice in this matter, anyway - now that Putin has shown that his intention is to re-establish the Soviet empire, we have to continue until Ukraine wins all its territory back. All of it, including Crimea. If he is not stopped now, the Baltic states will be next.

I think you're right.
 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
29,299
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New Oak City
Most of the people I know under 30 have no idea ...

But really, is this so bad? Are they to blame for the world we've created? I remember a bit of a fog about the world at that age. Travel + reading helped clear it because education sure didn't. Yes, they'll be responsible for cleaning up our mess and we've created quite a mess, but I blame selfish Boomers more, much more, than 'uninformed' Millenials and Zoomers.
 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
68,592
12,292
Great Wet North
You're right of course - everything that's wrong in the world is the fault of those greedy, selfish Boomers.

Just as it was all the fault of our parents - right up until they became recognized as the Greatest Generation.
 

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