Questions For Legal Eagles

[Jules]

The Parent's Rights In Education (AKA Don't Say Gay) bill was just signed by the Florida governor.  He has repeatedly claimed opponents of the bill haven't read it.  I did.  It's written in legalese and probably not easily understood by lay folks.

When I got to the remedies parents who oppose LGBTQ education in schools can take, I saw the process by which an offended parent can follow to try to change the school curriculum to their liking.

But I saw no mention of how a parent who doesn't want to shelter their children from LGBTQ education can counter that.  The whole bill seems designed solely for the anti-LGBTQ parent with no recourse for other parents who disagree.  Which could mean one parent could force the curriculum of an entire school district even if the rest of the district parents disagree.

So my question to the legal eagles, and @Sol Rosenberg I hope you're reading this -

Could this bill be construed as unconstitutional? 

Here's a link to the text - https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

The relief section:

 

[Ishmael]

Is "Draconian" a verb? These people are fucking insane.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Is "Draconian" a verb? These people are fucking insane.

I disagree

I think they are fucked -and- insane

- DSK

 

[Jules]

Is "Draconian" a verb? These people are fucking insane.

Reasonable and knowledgeable people would agree with you.  But the fearful see this as a good thing. 

I was hoping our legal brain trust here could comment on my suggestion these "don't say" bills (race and gay) could be unconstitutional and therefore overturned.  But since none of them have commented, I'm guessing that position is extremely debatable, if not completely without merit.  And that means Florida is stuck with these oppressive laws until the voters wise up.

 

[Ishmael]

Reasonable and knowledgeable people would agree with you.  But the fearful see this as a good thing. 

I was hoping our legal brain trust here could comment on my suggestion these "don't say" bills (race and gay) could be unconstitutional and therefore overturned.  But since none of them have commented, I'm guessing that position is extremely debatable, if not completely without merit.  And that means Florida is stuck with these oppressive laws until the voters wise up.

It doesn't look like the mainland is going to cut Floriduh adrift any time soon, so it will be fighting for last spot in education and equality with Alabama and the other southern red enclaves.

 

[billsreef]

It's harder to pull the wool over the eyes of educated people, so we need to stop that education stuff. I would have used purple, but I'm pretty sure the likes of DeSatin are serious about that.

 

[Jules]

It's harder to pull the wool over the eyes of educated people, so we need to stop that education stuff. I would have used purple, but I'm pretty sure the likes of DeSatin are serious about that.

One thing about TFG, he said what he meant, like, "I love the poorly educated."  No doubt admitting that made the GQP nervous but there was no fallout.  Those who should have been offended cheered. 

Denying education is the stuff of dictators and tyrants.

 

[Marty Gingras]

Thanks for the link.  I'd been wondering.

Not a legal eagle but spent a decade working with them, drafting proposed regulations and laws, and evaluating proposed regulations and laws:  Those remedies look to be for use by folks on both sides of the issue.  Constitutional laws, regulations, and policies routinely prescribe and proscribe actions (including speech) by government employees during the lawful conduct of their duties.

 

[Raz'r]

Reasonable and knowledgeable people would agree with you.  But the fearful see this as a good thing. 

I was hoping our legal brain trust here could comment on my suggestion these "don't say" bills (race and gay) could be unconstitutional and therefore overturned.  But since none of them have commented, I'm guessing that position is extremely debatable, if not completely without merit.  And that means Florida is stuck with these oppressive laws until the voters wise up.

Well, the Supremes have punted on the Texas Abortion law allowing random anyone's to sue, as long at the State doesn't get involved, the Supremes say "OK". (Hi @Pertinacious Tom!)

We have multiple states now looking at education restrictions using the same sort of law, and at least one, looking at dogballs control using the same approach.

Seems our Supremes have let us down, letting the majorities restrict minority rights at a whim.

 

[Ishmael]

Well, the Supremes have punted on the Texas Abortion law allowing random anyone's to sue, as long at the State doesn't get involved, the Supremes say "OK". (Hi @Pertinacious Tom!)

We have multiple states now looking at education restrictions using the same sort of law, and at least one, looking at dogballs control using the same approach.

Seems our Supremes have let us down, letting the majorities restrict minority rights at a whim.

They seem to be more inclined to enshrine the whims of the fringe minority at the expense of the majority.

 

[V21]

I have two legal questions today.

1. I just returned into the USA through an airport, i am a naturalized citizen, have a US passport. I have entered the country as a non citizen and as a citizen. It seems to be a widely held belief that US passport control people are dicks. I handed the officer my passport, he asked where I had been and why, where I lived and what I did for work, even to the point of asking for a more specific answer when I replied self employed. I didn't make a scene but was obviously a bit annoyed, he gave me this condescending speil asking if I had entered the country before and that they ask everyone these questions.

Is there any legal basis for this in the land of the free ? Surely if I wanted I could legally say none of your fucking business, let me in. I mean, I used my UK passport to enter the UK and just slid it in a machine and walked in.

Bonus question, then I saw a dump truck with a sign saying stay back and they have no responsibility for broken windshields. Is that right ? Surely I can't drive down the road chucking gravel out the window at the car behind me, what's the difference?

 

[MR.CLEAN]

I have two legal questions today.

1. I just returned into the USA through an airport, i am a naturalized citizen, have a US passport. I have entered the country as a non citizen and as a citizen. It seems to be a widely held belief that US passport control people are dicks. I handed the officer my passport, he asked where I had been and why, where I lived and what I did for work, even to the point of asking for a more specific answer when I replied self employed. I didn't make a scene but was obviously a bit annoyed, he gave me this condescending speil asking if I had entered the country before and that they ask everyone these questions.

Is there any legal basis for this in the land of the free ? Surely if I wanted I could legally say none of your fucking business, let me in. I mean, I used my UK passport to enter the UK and just slid it in a machine and walked in.

Bonus question, then I saw a dump truck with a sign saying stay back and they have no responsibility for broken windshields. Is that right ? Surely I can't drive down the road chucking gravel out the window at the car behind me, what's the difference?

CBP has the power to ask you whatever they want within reason. if you choose not to answer them, they may keep you for however long it takes to search you and your stuff and verify your identity and status. Once they verify you have the right to be in the country, they have to let you in. It can take a long time, with little recourse unless you have an immigration lawyer on speed dial. My firm does immigration law, but only in unique and emergency circumstances. This kind of shit happens way too often at the southern border: https://time.com/5556738/girl-9-detained-border-patrol/

Yes, I am a lawyer.

 

[Marty Gingras]

Bonus question, then I saw a dump truck with a sign saying stay back and they have no responsibility for broken windshields. Is that right ? Surely I can't drive down the road chucking gravel out the window at the car behind me, what's the difference?

The sign is a bluff and a reminder. That said, could be tough to prove the truck dropped the rock for which they'd be liable. It might have kicked up a rock, such that they wouldn't be liable unless they were doing something illegal that contributed (e.g., didn't have required mud flaps).

 

[V21]

CBP has the power to ask you whatever they want within reason. if you choose not to answer them, they may keep you for however long it takes to search you and your stuff and verify your identity and status. Once they verify you have the right to be in the country, they have to let you in. It can take a long time, with little recourse unless you have an immigration lawyer on speed dial. My firm does immigration law, but only in unique and emergency circumstances. This kind of shit happens way too often at the southern border: https://time.com/5556738/girl-9-detained-border-patrol/

Yes, I am a lawyer.

Wow, that story is unbelievable, surely having a passport in your hand that is in date and not fake is surely verification in itself, I wonder if that happens in any other country, definitely not in UK.

 

[d'ranger]

After 9/11 it was decided to trade liberty for security in the US. A lot of us were not very happy that a handful of guys with some box cutters were able to make this happen and feared for the future for us all. The land of the free and the home of the brave doesn't have the same ring to it anymore.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I have two legal questions today.

1. I just returned into the USA through an airport, i am a naturalized citizen, have a US passport. I have entered the country as a non citizen and as a citizen. It seems to be a widely held belief that US passport control people are dicks. I handed the officer my passport, he asked where I had been and why, where I lived and what I did for work, even to the point of asking for a more specific answer when I replied self employed. I didn't make a scene but was obviously a bit annoyed, he gave me this condescending speil asking if I had entered the country before and that they ask everyone these questions.

Is there any legal basis for this in the land of the free ? Surely if I wanted I could legally say none of your fucking business, let me in. I mean, I used my UK passport to enter the UK and just slid it in a machine and walked in.

Bonus question, then I saw a dump truck with a sign saying stay back and they have no responsibility for broken windshields. Is that right ? Surely I can't drive down the road chucking gravel out the window at the car behind me, what's the difference?

I have been in and out of the country more times than I can count. Usually the immigration people are cool, but if they want to be huge dicks they can be and "fighting the man" is only worthwhile if you don't need to be anywhere in a hurry.
One time I had a passenger that didn't bring ID to the Bahamas because "That is part of Florida, right" and the customs guy was scaring the girl half to death detailing horrendous punishments like 347 years in jail with no food. He gave me a wink when she wasn't looking and told her she MIGHT be allowed on the island if I took total responsibility for her and she had to do ANYTHING I told her to. We kept it up for a bit and I was making her get me cold drinks and stuff until we finally cracked up and told her it was a joke
*lucky for me the nice customs lady in the USA knew me and let her go get her ID from her car and come back once we got back to Florida

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Wow, that story is unbelievable, surely having a passport in your hand that is in date and not fake is surely verification in itself, I wonder if that happens in any other country, definitely not in UK.

Dude - any country's customs people can ask you about anything. We stayed on a Canadian island connected by a bridge to Maine and thus some days cleared customs 3 times. The Canadians generally waved once they recognized us but the American guy ALWAYS wanted the whole spiel, where are you staying, where are you going, etc. etc.

 

[billy backstay]

Recently flew to S. Carolina and back. I had a single small tissue in the back pocket of my jeans that I didn't know what was there. The machine picked it up, and I was pulled out of line for the full frisk and wanding.
.

 

[billy backstay]

Dude - any country's customs people can ask you about anything. We stayed on a Canadian island connected by a bridge to Maine and thus some days cleared customs 3 times. The Canadians generally waved once they recognized us but the American guy ALWAYS wanted the whole spiel, where are you staying, where are you going, etc. etc.

Says a lot about the differences between Canadians and US-ains!!
.

 

[bridhb]

I have been in and out of the country more times than I can count. Usually the immigration people are cool, but if they want to be huge dicks they can be and "fighting the man" is only worthwhile if you don't need to be anywhere in a hurry.
One time I had a passenger that didn't bring ID to the Bahamas because "That is part of Florida, right" and the customs guy was scaring the girl half to death detailing horrendous punishments like 347 years in jail with no food. He gave me a wink when she wasn't looking and told her she MIGHT be allowed on the island if I took total responsibility for her and she had to do ANYTHING I told her to. We kept it up for a bit and I was making her get me cold drinks and stuff until we finally cracked up and told her it was a joke
*lucky for me the nice customs lady in the USA knew me and let her go get her ID from her car and come back once we got back to Florida

Way before 9/11, I sank a boat near Bimini and flew back to Ft. Lauderdale on Chalk's using money my parents wired me, and entered with absolutely no ID. The customs guys took me into a small room and made me cite the preamble to the constitution, which for some reason, I was able to remember from 8th grade history. They then told me to GTFO of here.