Quick Stop MOB Maneuver under spinnaker?

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
Didn't want to tack this onto the Greg Mueller thread but it has me thinking. It seems like especially with a fast boat under spinnaker or A-sail in breeze, trying to do the classic quick stop could be very dangerous even for a trained and practiced crew. There's a lot of potential for mistakes that could break the boat and/or crew, put more people in the water and make the situation worse.

What are some thoughts about the best way to go into a MOB recovery in that situation? Seems like simpler would be better especially in the initial phases of getting speed off the boat.

 

Parma

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I'd be tempted to just immediately blow the sheet, luff hard dead into the wind, motor on, wait for the sail to be over the boat, then blow the halyard, leaving the tack line attached to prevent losing the sail completely. 

I think in that particular case being tangled in the sheet prevented blowing the sheet, in which case blow the tack & halyard, retrieve sail after picking up the MOB.

I know there are lots of potential issues with sails & lines in the water, but that would probably be my reaction.

(sounds easy, bet it's not!)

Really interested to hear other ideas!!!!! (and why's)

 
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Monkey

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Didn't want to tack this onto the Greg Mueller thread but it has me thinking. It seems like especially with a fast boat under spinnaker or A-sail in breeze, trying to do the classic quick stop could be very dangerous even for a trained and practiced crew. There's a lot of potential for mistakes that could break the boat and/or crew, put more people in the water and make the situation worse.

What are some thoughts about the best way to go into a MOB recovery in that situation? Seems like simpler would be better especially in the initial phases of getting speed off the boat.
One of the boats I race on avidly insists on the quick stop. I agree, and intend the same thing on my boat. The key is no stopper knots on the spin gear. Blow everything and you get a big flag. If it’s really bad, cut the halyard and ditch it all. I’d rather spend about 8 grand to replace that shit than have to explain why I didn’t do everything I could to save a friend. 
 

This is referring to offshore and not necessarily buoy racing. 

 

SloopJonB

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Crash stop for sure - but be extremely careful before starting the engine because there are almost certainly going to be lines in the water.

A prop wrap in that circumstance could literally be deadly.

 

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
I've seen some guidance that says "ease the afterguy to the headstay and cleat it." This seems to me like an opportunity to either smack the pole into the headstay & break something or inadvertently let both the sheet and guy go and have nothing to pull the sail down with.

Assuming that the spin sheet is let go, is there any problem with just leaving the afterguy & pole where they are until the kite is down and things have calmed down a bit?

So the only immediate actions would be to let the spin sheet go entirely and turn the boat up (plus spotter, GPS mark, flotation, etc.).

 
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Monkey

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I've seen some guidance that says "ease the afterguy to the headstay and cleat it." This seems to me like an opportunity to either smack the pole into the headstay & break something or inadvertently let both the sheet and guy go and have nothing to pull the sail down with.

Assuming that the spin sheet is let go, is there any problem with just leaving the afterguy & pole where they are until the kite is down and things have calmed down a bit?

So the only immediate actions would be to let the spin sheet go entirely and turn the boat up (plus spotter, GPS mark, flotation, etc.).
The problem there, as mentioned earlier is that it puts a lot of string within easy reach of your propeller. 

 

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
The problem there, as mentioned earlier is that it puts a lot of string within easy reach of your propeller. 
Well, yes. But I think starting the motor isn't one of the immediate actions, it's a little further down the checklist and follows a check that all lines are onboard (as it should even for a routine engine start).

 

fastyacht

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If stopping is key to close then by all means stop!

Engine on is secondary

In case of drag this is even moreso.

Big problem is we dont practice thise

Everyone is afraid of dtroying $15k spin in practice.

How to practice?

 

AHoleMel

Member
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18
If your on a 4knt shitbox things happen fairly slow should you been on a performance ride things have to happen quick. Either WAY

1st. STOP the BOAT. best way to make that happen.

Turn into the WIND.

Once the chute blows back into the triangle blow the halyard. Sail should land on the foredeck

gather up sheets and guys, as someone gets engine started. 

I think the Question should have been WTF to do When BOB goes over while spinnaker is up?

there is a whole lotta shit that needs to happen to have a chance of recovering BOB.. (anyone who's been splashed earns the name of, your 1st name here -->>______ Bob)

Earlier this year I was invited to sail on one of the performance boats in the hood. Crew consisted of seasoned sailors. Those with 25+ years along with the younger hotshots. While dicking around B4 the start, someone looses a hat. I call for a man overboard drill. Youngsters ask why. response was when was the last time you ever did one, reply NEVER!!   

Keep that in mind as you start to get out this summer. 

Hat was recovered safely but not without some issues and took a lot longer than anyone thought. 

Failure to learn something new today is a wasted day.

 

Ex Machina

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One possible way of doing it on an A sail boat would be to quickly soak off some speed and gybe into a round  up on the other tack with the kite plastered to the jib (if it’s up)  …messy as hell and a bit of work for the foredeck to sort .

But while the carnage is being cleared it gives the MOB a chance to start swimming toward boat if feasible .

otherwise I would soak off speed and do a windward drop and round up as it’s happening . 

 

fucket

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Chicago, IL
One possible way of doing it on an A sail boat would be to quickly soak off some speed and gybe into a round  up on the other tack with the kite plastered to the jib (if it’s up)  …messy as hell and a bit of work for the foredeck to sort .

But while the carnage is being cleared it gives the MOB a chance to start swimming toward boat if feasible .

otherwise I would soak off speed and do a windward drop and round up as it’s happening . 


On an A sail boat with a furler, I've always thought that popping the jib out on the wrong side and quickly gybing with an ugly mexican douse in the middle onto the deck followed by a round up could be probably the quickest way to stop with some control. If you drop the sail on deck, it would only take one person in the pit to do everything. Never tried it in practice or in anger.

 
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TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
On an A sail boat with a furler, I've always thought that popping the jib out on the wrong side and quickly gybing with an ugly mexican douse in the middle onto the deck followed by a round up could be probably the quickest way to stop with some control. If you drop the sail on deck, it would only take one person in the pit to do everything. Never tried it in practice or in anger.
I think I'd be worried about the boom in that maneuver, with the crew excited, focused on other things and either not expecting the gybe or not remembering they need to duck because they're completely focused on the MOB situation.

 

Reference

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A downwind quickstop is all fun and games in 10kts in flat water, but in 20 or 25, what is more likely is that you round up, get knocked down, more people fall in, and now your spinnaker is hopelessly wrapped on the forestay and your prop is fouled with lines. You’re not working back to the MOB any time soon.

In a blow, I’d rather bear off and do a fast controlled drop, then get back. You are not helping the victim if you make things worse.

 
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White Lightning2

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Downwind in leadmines, it was always just "Spinnaker in the boat". In any kind of racing the crew work should be at that level. Afterguard takes care of spotter and getting iron genny ready. My boats were always beer can level racing (occasionally a little higher) but crew could put a spinnaker in the boat from cold call to turn in 60-90 seconds. Somebody being wrapped in a sheet or guy is no different than an over ride or jam, KNIFE.

We practiced quite a bit though and probably had, IMHO, some of the best talent any skipper could ask for. 

WL

 

Tom O'Keefe

Super Anarchist
At full gate in 20 plus knots, you're not going to just stick it up and have any good results. Blow the sheets. Head up to slow the boat. Keep to practiced take downs in breeze in a controlled fashion to drop the spinnaker in a letter box. Tack around and get back to the MOB GPS position ASAP. There really aren't many safer options. 

 

Left Shift

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Al of the advice I've read seems to be for 35'er doing 8-10 knot and in moderate seas.  On a faster boat, off shore in 20+ knots of breeze, doing 17-20 knots, with an A-sail, narrow bulb keel and a limited number of people on deck, the choice between a quick stop with just a few crew and a controlled take-down after waiting for full crew is impossible to make from an armchair.  

I do know that on larger, light, flat-bottomed, narrow keel, off-shore boat with say a 2,000SF+ a-sail and a skinny rig and split backstays that a quick stop will break shit, blind the driver and the pointer.  While a controlled take-down waiting for crew to get on deck will probably end up with you 2 miles downwind from the POB

So...All I know, after participating in 7 POB recoveries, is that I want a few things in a boat I'm on:  PLBs on all crew, crotch straps on all jackets, a pointer that never looks away, a motor that always starts, a crew with fast hands, a boat hook and an open transom.  An open transom is probably the best safety feature of any race boat I've been on.  

I know that you cannot control the boat in breeze with the main up, without the motor on and lines clear.  Sailing up to a POB means you are doing at least 3-4 knots and then trying to stop dead while staying in arms reach of the person.  

I also know that I will never rely on a Life-sling to perform as advertised.   

...  So at the end of the day, with 4 to 5 people on deck, I've settled on doing a slow, controlled round up, 1 driver, 1 pointer, 1 to check for lines and 1 to go down below to punch the POB button, start the engine and wake up the crew.   Then you get down to business.  

Somebody above said "no stopper knots in the spin gear".  If anybody still puts stopper knots in sheets, I'd drop them off on the nearest dock.

 




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