R2AK 2019

Norse Horse

Super Anarchist
4,987
546
The Rock
I would question whether carrying enough weight in batteries to cant the keel would be efficient vs letting gravity and a little hand pumping do the work.  If short tacking, centre the keel and use a smaller headsail...
What would you think if they had a fuel cell to power it?

 

MRS OCTOPUS

Anarchist
666
208
AUSTRALIA
Does anyone actually think that they can power the boat by canting the keel back and forth? 
Interesting question.

We could power our narrow gutted 30 ft sports boat with a deep bulbed fin keel, in a glass out, by placing one crew each side, holding the shrouds, and rocking the boat from side to side in a slow rhythmic motion. I guess the tiniest forward motion plus the flow generated by the rolling, over the keel, generated lift  causing the forward motion.

Easily get a knot of boat speed with some practice , effortlessly, for the trip back to the mooring.

 
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Zonker

Super Anarchist
9,288
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Canada
- we have seen many fast boats that are sailed in holiday mode.
Russell doesn't like to sail at night around here. Too many BIG floating logs that you can't see. Some of them float vertically with almost the whole log submerged and just a foot or two out of the water. They bob up and down vertically in a seaway. They puncture boats quite easily and are known as "deadheads"

 

SeaGul

Super Anarchist
1,348
99
Oslo Norway
Russell doesn't like to sail at night around here. Too many BIG floating logs that you can't see. Some of them float vertically with almost the whole log submerged and just a foot or two out of the water. They bob up and down vertically in a seaway. They puncture boats quite easily and are known as "deadheads"


Going singlehanded as said - I totally get it - you have to be in it for many days - so you need to rest. With the logs -  can you even see them during daytime - before they are so close you will hit?  Maybe in close to flat and glassy waters - but then they will be no real danger - give the speed will be low. But going fast during daytime - with some seas - you be lucky to see a log. The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.

 

SeaGul

Super Anarchist
1,348
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Oslo Norway
Another idea the get propulsion without a motor; wavepower ; see from 2.30 a test many years ago here in the Oslo-fjord - this ting got up to 6knots: If you have autopilot you can sleep at night when the boat is in this mode -going right against the waves...  a modern carbon version using the latest tech would be more effective on a light boat - a cat could have two - ore one big.




 
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sinker

Member
62
3
Interesting question.

We could power our narrow gutted 30 ft sports boat with a deep bulbed fin keel, in a glass out, by placing one crew each side, holding the shrouds, and rocking the boat from side to side in a slow rhythmic motion. I guess the tiniest forward motion plus the flow generated by the rolling, over the keel, generated lift  causing the forward motion.

Easily get a knot of boat speed with some practice , effortlessly, for the trip back to the mooring.
Would electric winches be allowed?  

A fuel cell is a generator, using methanol to produce electricity.  https://www.efoy-comfort.com/how-it-works

Using electrical power to cant the keel is legit for the race seems against the spirit of the event. Using a fuel cell seems a little further down the road. 

 
Going singlehanded as said - I totally get it - you have to be in it for many days - so you need to rest. With the logs -  can you even see them during daytime - before they are so close you will hit?  Maybe in close to flat and glassy waters - but then they will be no real danger - give the speed will be low. But going fast during daytime - with some seas - you be lucky to see a log. The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.
They emerge where ever they think there is some jamming is going to occur!   Its a big mess if you hit one.

- Stumbling

 

SeaGul

Super Anarchist
1,348
99
Oslo Norway
Would electric winches be allowed?  

A fuel cell is a generator, using methanol to produce electricity.  https://www.efoy-comfort.com/how-it-works

Using electrical power to cant the keel is legit for the race seems against the spirit of the event. Using a fuel cell seems a little further down the road. 
To use electric power to cant a keel - you need a form of motor - to transform the electricity into movement - so against the rules - also electric winches imo. And even if you harvest the electricity while you are out there - you need the motor. 

 

Varan

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Russell doesn't like to sail at night around here. Too many BIG floating logs that you can't see. Some of them float vertically with almost the whole log submerged and just a foot or two out of the water. They bob up and down vertically in a seaway. They puncture boats quite easily and are known as "deadheads"
What a long strange trip it's been.

 

Russell Brown

Super Anarchist
1,639
1,199
Port Townsend WA
To use electric power to cant a keel - you need a form of motor - to transform the electricity into movement - so against the rules - also electric winches imo. And even if you harvest the electricity while you are out there - you need the motor. 
I could use my autopilot to scull the rudders back and forth and that would be "against the rules", but I'm not going to. Why?, because it's an utterly useless way to propel the boat, not because it's against the rules. Same thing with canting the keel. Remember that these boats do have auxiliary power, even if it is human and it ain't round the buoys racing.

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
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I'm just going to turn up the reggae on the waterproof earbuds to 11 and bunny hop the whole course like this!





Funny thing is Roger Mann could probably pull it off!

 
9 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I'm just going to turn up the reggae on the waterproof earbuds to 11 and bunny hop the whole course like this!


I think that at real world speed, you need to have Ska, Cajun or Bluegrass on the repeating playlist, to keep the foils working.

Other part is to have a repeatable inflatable/deflatable boat that instantly deploys for deep water starts.

Stomp that foil, boy!

- Stumbling

 

swangtang

Member
277
18
BC
Going singlehanded as said - I totally get it - you have to be in it for many days - so you need to rest. With the logs -  can you even see them during daytime - before they are so close you will hit?  Maybe in close to flat and glassy waters - but then they will be no real danger - give the speed will be low. But going fast during daytime - with some seas - you be lucky to see a log. The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.
They emerge where ever they think there is some jamming is going to occur!   Its a big mess if you hit one.

- Stumbling
Everyone knows deadheads go to sleep below the water at night, have you ever seen one?

 

SeaGul

Super Anarchist
1,348
99
Oslo Norway
I could use my autopilot to scull the rudders back and forth and that would be "against the rules", but I'm not going to. Why?, because it's an utterly useless way to propel the boat, not because it's against the rules. Same thing with canting the keel. Remember that these boats do have auxiliary power, even if it is human and it ain't round the buoys racing.
Rudder or keel - as you say - will not work good anyway. Steering is something you easy do - and a autopilot is more like an instrument - but its a small motor there, next step is the electric power winch - and the next level is power for moving a canting keel.  None is used for propulsion. Then you should be able to maintain the batteries on the go - no charging from land. 

 

SeaGul

Super Anarchist
1,348
99
Oslo Norway
The testing of the wavefoils was done for bigger boats - I can see it will not be good enough for a big vessel - but for a small light wessel it might work; a sailboat that tacks will have problems doing 5kn vmg - so if you can manage that speed while you are safe - sails down - and resting - it would be a good option for a race like R2AK or while touring. 

 

sleddog

Member
352
300
 The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.
Yup, many.  But not at night.  Who in their right mind would be in a small boat, sailing fast, at night, in them waters? 

So I'm cruising along under power out the Straits.  Somewhere just east of Port Angeles, ahead and not half a length to starboard, vertically aligned, surfaces a 4' deadhead.  Only it's metallic silver and has a rounded point at the exposed end.  WTF?  I  slow down and drift alongside to check it out. It doesn't take long to realize what I'm seeing.  A f&#&ing torpedo.  Two days before I'd been by Area Whiskey Golf, and seen torpedoes being dropped from low flying military aircraft.  I guessed this deadhead likely an escapee.

"U.S. Coast Guard, WILDFLOWER, channel 16."  "WILDFLOWER, this is U.S. Coast Guard, go ahead. "Coast Guard, I'm standing by a torpedo, floating vertically, 4 feet exposed, at position XXxYY.   Silence.  WILDFLOWER, this is U.S. Coast Guard, please repeat what it is you are standing by"." "Also, we request you maintain station near the object until a Coast Guard vessel arrives."

That's how I got to spend a morning drifting in the vicinity, but not too close, to a deadhead torpedo. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there.

 
 
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