R2AK 2019

Cal20sailor

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It’s one of the brilliant wellsprings of this race that as long as you can operate components manually, anything is ok, which will encourage more innovation per race than decades of conservative constriction.  

:wub:
I had to read this three times to get your point and I agree.  Who in their right mind would put trapezes on a Melges 24 mast and I hope they did some reinforcements and that, as you point out, is innovation.  Some of the propulsion systems are incredibly novel.  As the race grows, I expect to see some really fun concepts be attempted.  That's all good.  

 

Cal20sailor

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Daggerboard case? Rudder fittings?
Dark of night, going from 20 to 0?  I hope no one was injured (who remembers The Race?).  I'm sure they did a damage assessment and I'm sure the story will be told.  If this was four different occasions of hitting logs and not just hitting four right in a row, I think I would have pulled way back on the reins.  I mean, who doesn't need a nice set of steak knives.  Seriously, hitting one let alone four logs would have spooked me and the safety of my boat and crew would have become paramount and I would never question anything the Pear did, they finished!  Looking forward to what I am sure is a very interesting story.  Really glad all are safe.  

 
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Daggerboard case? Rudder fittings?
Rudders and lifting foils in amas, dagger in main hull - at least it was like that in Port Townsend on Sunday!

DSC_0091.jpg

 

alctel

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I was thinking looking at all the boats at the start that this race has really led to some interesting things in propulsion and otherwise

Tough for the pears though, bummer!

 

Cal20sailor

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Rudders and lifting foils in amas, dagger in main hull - at least it was like that in Port Townsend on Sunday!
I'm sure it was the leeward Ama that took the brunt of each hit, but I assume it cleared the log and the other Ama, foil, dagger, and rudder hit at a lower speed.  I'm curious if that Ama had a crash bulkhead and how much water they took.  I would have been really shook up if in the dark of night while flying downwind on the edge, this had happened to me.  That's a really good excuse to call a time out.  Sail deep with the main only and take some deep breaths.  Obviously, these guys did everything right and damn near won the race.  My hat's off.  

 
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Amati

Guest
I'm sure it was the leeward Ama that took the brunt of each hit, but I assume it cleared the log and the other Ama, foil, dagger, and rudder hit at a lower speed.  I'm curious if that Ama had a crash bulkhead and how much water they took.  I would have been really shook up if in the dark of night while flying downwind on the edge, this had happened to me.  That's a really good excuse to call a time out.  Sail deep with the main only and take some deep breaths.  Obviously, these guys did everything right and damn near won the race.  My hat's off.  
My hats off too.  

Swing centerboards and rudders might be a good idea....even leeboard style hydrofoils might work if the point loading isn’t too extreme while rotating up from a strike...

Newick or Hobie style bows might be advantageous too.

 
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Interesting that EG went outside for the pass after Aristazabal while Trickster chose the inside. SUAD did same to SLAG Its currently blowing 19 at the North Hecate buoy and the forecast looks to be about spot on as per windfinder - increasing bubble of 20+ kts for the next several hours. I Wonder what the conditons are really like out in the open water vs inside the islands. Seems to pay for whoever had the confidence to head for more breeze in the open waters. 

 
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I'm sure it was the leeward Ama that took the brunt of each hit, but I assume it cleared the log and the other Ama, foil, dagger, and rudder hit at a lower speed.  I'm curious if that Ama had a crash bulkhead and how much water they took.  I would have been really shook up if in the dark of night while flying downwind on the edge, this had happened to me.  That's a really good excuse to call a time out.  Sail deep with the main only and take some deep breaths.  Obviously, these guys did everything right and damn near won the race.  My hat's off.  
I can answer that. Most trimarans especially smaller ones have Amas that are too damn skinny to lay up all the way to the pointy end. They almost always have a bulkhead back to where the layup makes sense. Dragon was built this way. The bows are actually sacrificial for at least a foot. They are shaped solid foam. I called mine "Nerf Bows". They can be really ugly without water ingress. The reality is that Duncan can tape them up and sail home. Scary shit though, and yes, it is pause for reflection.

 
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Amati

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If hit at 20kts, I think inertia would contest.  
Depends what they are made of-  I hit a log at 12 or so knots in my Finn, and part of the metal centerboard stayed stuck in the wood, even as it- the centerboard- rotated up into the hull- some chipped gel coat, but otherwise she was ok.  Granted really old school, but hey....

 
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Zonker

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There is a long thread on the Multi forum about kickup boards and rudders and damage to them from logs and shit.

Having hit a log at around 7-9 knots one dark night it was a very loud bang. It took a 6" diameter semi circle out of a solid cored daggerboard. Didn't crush the wood, it was just... gone.

Twice as fast would be 4x the energy. Not fun on a carbon foiled speedster. I'd hope the ama would have at least 1 bulkhead a few feet aft of the bow for that sort of thing.

Yeah, my hull bows were built the same way. Just like a car bumper. Took 2 log hits (one in BC, log about telephone pole size) with just damage to the foam and glass covering. Just glue in some new foam and re-glass at next haulout. No drama

 
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Cal20sailor

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Depends what they are made of-  I hit a log at 12 or so knots in my Finn, and part of the metal centerboard stayed stuck in the wood, even as it- the centerboar- rotated up into the hull- some chipped gel coat, but otherwise she was ok.  Granted really old school, but hey....
If it was all metal, you must have known my grandmother Bessie.   I get your point and am just happy everyone is safe in a race that threw a lot of curve balls.  I'm in awe of your boat.  

 

sinker

Member
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3
It’s one of the brilliant wellsprings of this race that as long as you can operate components manually, anything is ok, which will encourage more innovation per race than decades of conservative constriction.  

:wub:
You mean like using a generator/fuel cell to charge an electric motor to pump the keel to rock the boat and make it move? 

 

Cal20sailor

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You mean like using a generator/fuel cell to charge an electric motor to pump the keel to rock the boat and make it move? 
I took his comment as a protest against anything not manual, but as I stated, it took three reads.

 
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sinker

Member
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I took his comment as a protest against anything not manual, but as I stated it took three reads.
I was commenting on what the Beavers actually did. Way beyond what seemed to be the intent of the race but the organizers allowed it and it is their event

 
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Amati

Guest
You mean like using a generator/fuel cell to charge an electric motor to pump the keel to rock the boat and make it move? 
No.  Tackle would be fine.  This is why Ulysses had his crew tie him to the mast.  If only the race boss had that kind of self discipline....

 
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Cal20sailor

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I was commenting on what the Beavers actually did. Way beyond what seemed to be the intent of the race but the organizers allowed it and it is their event
And I was commenting on Amati's post.  I don't have a huge problem with the Beaver.  In a race like this, you're not moving the keel on short cycles.  Someone from the crew made a really stupid comment at the finish.    

On retrospect, the energy they expended to move the keel was all self-generated?  No other fuel?  If not, they created a non-level playing field.  It would have been a simple block/tackle arrangement to work the keel from a winch in the cockpit, but they chose to be lazy. And when I say simple, probably well over a grand to implement.  

 
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