R2AK 2022

shebeen

Super Anarchist
On why "big" monos beat the trimarans...its the conditions; if its light the trimarans (and M32 and G32) will go like hell... but in the heavy conditions the forces on the boats and people are much bigger on the multis- and breaks them down when its a long race like this. Also few people vs a good crew usually on the monos. And also the trimarans are loaded up too much in many cases. I also think the outside route will win most of the years...a capable boat will di that rather easy - and you need luck to be faster on the inland route.
I think he's referring to why two early 80s monohulls are not being run down by much sportier trimarans since leaving bella bella. not having the polars on hand, but it seems like a 27ft tri should easily be going faster than a 33ft mono once the difficult narrow passage crap is gone and you're into open water
I reckon it's more to do with windangle, if it stays on the beam like this then you might find that lead getting eroded but the multis will run out of racetrack.

1655900670814.png
 

shebeen

Super Anarchist
That has been my experience over years of RORC offshore racing, usually in 6 or 9 man crews. With one owner during two boats, we converted him from a stay up on deck all night and leave your toothbrush at home to save weight fanatic to finishing races well rested and ready to party. The results improved as well. We won four RORC offshore (divisional) pointscores back in the nineties.

PS

Best dock tie up in Ketchikan has to be Elsie Piddock’s In the inaugural race. Pure gold.


looks pretty standard dock tie up. what am i missing?
 

munt

Super Anarchist
1,221
237
The belt
I'd bet Malolo, the F9r or F31r would have given Pure and Wild some trouble if they would have stayed in contact early and then gone outside. Truth is that in light air, especially going to weather, the long and slippery mono is going to rack up the miles and do so with much less effort. The Fboats are somewhat conservative in terms of power to weight ratio, they'll start giving it to the monos when the wind goes up around 15ish. The 24 foot tris, especially when loaded for distance, will only have game for a faster mono when there's some reaching going on. I've seen it countless times racing in mixed fleets. Weight is a bigger factor on the multis but waterline is king in light air.
 

Sidecar

…………………………
3,115
1,487
Tasmania
looks pretty standard dock tie up. what am i missing?
That is an edited/clipped version what you don’t see is them going head to wind, to kill speed before bearing away as they arrive at the dock. They didn’t just sail straight in. They also only bought the boat for the race, so didn’t have a lot of practice with it.

My opinion. You are entitled to yours.
 

SailingTips.Ca

Feigns Knowledge
789
338
Victoria, BC
We’ve done a number of medium-distance races in these waters with mixed fleets (e.g. Swiftsure, Patos, Cascadia Convoy, Snakes and Ladders) on our F-82R (27’).

In lighter air (<5 knots) we’re literally racing boat-for-boat with the fast 30 and 40 foot monohulls (e.g. FT10, CM1200) and can’t really get away from them.

Once the wind picks up above 10 knots we are able to start pulling away.

Our maximum advantage versus the monos is probably in 15-20 knots of breeze, before the sea state builds too much.

Above 20 knots of breeze we’re still faster, but we have to start being wary of the sea state, which is less of a problem for the monos, so they can keep their foot on the gas, while we might have to slow down a bit.

If our boat is loaded down (e.g. with a third person and overnight gear) it’s much harder to get away from the monos.

I also owned a 42’ monohull for several years and did many of these very same races. It takes much more alertness to keep the smaller multihull on pace than a longer monohull, which is definitely a factor in longer races.

So all somebody really needs to do is show up with a 40’ multihull and it’s game over!

 
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valis

Super Anarchist
3,782
610
Friday Harbor, WA
You could see yesterday how the Elsewhere vs Fashionably Late duel was going to develop, just based on the wind forecasts. Elsewhere had a favorable TWS and TWA, but around 9PM or so sailed into a wind-hole. Fashionably had a tougher TWA to deal with as they beat their way up the side of Banks Island, but when Elsewhere stalled out they were able to catch up.

But later in the evening the wind filled in from the east and the hole shifted east, leaving Fashionably stalled while Elsewhere took off again.

Now Elsewhere is again sailing into some light wind, but it looks like that will strengthen and turn into a tailwind in the afternoon. Fashionably will narrow the gap, but I don't think they will be able to catch up, Elsewhere is now about 30 NM from the finish line. Elsewhere will be heading into an adverse current soon, but it's pretty light and of course it turns to favorable after that.
 
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On why "big" monos beat the trimarans...its the conditions; if its light the trimarans (and M32 and G32) will go like hell... but in the heavy conditions the forces on the boats and people are much bigger on the multis- and breaks them down when its a long race like this. Also few people vs a good crew usually on the monos. And also the trimarans are loaded up too much in many cases. I also think the outside route will win most of the years...a capable boat will di that rather easy - and you need luck to be faster on the inland route.
i have had numerous requests to participate in R2AK on my F28R. I am wondering what it would have been like sailing uphill for two+ days on the west side of the island. Got a report from Dragon that they thought about it, but that low approaching the coast on day 1+ was the determining factor to attempt to blaze the inside. Said it was blowing 30 with higher gusts off Estevan Pt at some point during the time that P&W was out there. I think a double reef in the main and my 70% jib would be manageable, but one will never know unless one goes. Its still in the cards, just want someone else to assist with the engineering of the pedal drive, rowing station. Since you want weight forward in light air, i keep thinking of Bad Kitty's drive train and pedaling from the forward beam. It would have to be easily detached so as not to interfere with sailing. All and any inquiries welcome. We sail hard and would want to take a run at the front of the pack for what we are, an F28R that is fun and fast when the conditions are proper!
Dougie B
 

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,532
3,271
Seattle
I was delivering a boat down the Washington coast this weekend. It was nasty out there. 35 knots was what we saw, until we lost our masthead unit in a snap broach. After that, we don't know. Breezy and very lumpy dis-organized seas. No moon and pretty hard to drive a consistent course. I would think that a smallish racing tri would have a terrible time.

Put it this way...we hit 16.5 knots on a beam reach with a J-4 jib and a storm trysail up.
 

Roleur

Super Anarchist
2,947
646
Orcas Island
We delivered down to SF last week. Full Supermoon and no clouds meant it didn't really get dark! 19 knots with just a double-reefed main. J/99 hit 21 knots with only a J4 up.

Were you on Mist?
 
I'd bet Malolo, the F9r or F31r would have given Pure and Wild some trouble if they would have stayed in contact early and then gone outside. Truth is that in light air, especially going to weather, the long and slippery mono is going to rack up the miles and do so with much less effort. The Fboats are somewhat conservative in terms of power to weight ratio, they'll start giving it to the monos when the wind goes up around 15ish. The 24 foot tris, especially when loaded for distance, will only have game for a faster mono when there's some reaching going on. I've seen it countless times racing in mixed fleets. Weight is a bigger factor on the multis but waterline is king in light air.
One year in RTC, the forecast for day two, sailing clockwise to the finish, was forecast 15-20. My boat whisperer crew at the time, Mark the Irishman, mentioned it was a day for the little tri to beat the big monos going upwind. We stayed in touch going up wind to Patos passing all the smaller boats and held our own once we sailed toward Lawrence Pt on Orcas. just a few degrees from point mode. But once we hit Lawrence point, we cracked off, set the screecher and and took off like a rocket! We passed the slower ORC big boats and finished just behind Dark Star whom we would have passed had we not finished. It was the only race I believe we ever actually corrected out on the Formula 40 Dragonfly. Its all about the conditions for a little tri to outpace a monohull. Three with minimum gear to stay safe would certainly be the call and while 4 would make it more civilized, we are seeing the penalty for weight in real time.
 

SailingTips.Ca

Feigns Knowledge
789
338
Victoria, BC
i have had numerous requests to participate in R2AK on my F28R. I am wondering what it would have been like sailing uphill for two+ days on the west side of the island. Got a report from Dragon that they thought about it, but that low approaching the coast on day 1+ was the determining factor to attempt to blaze the inside. Said it was blowing 30 with higher gusts off Estevan Pt at some point during the time that P&W was out there. I think a double reef in the main and my 70% jib would be manageable, but one will never know unless one goes. Its still in the cards, just want someone else to assist with the engineering of the pedal drive, rowing station. Since you want weight forward in light air, i keep thinking of Bad Kitty's drive train and pedaling from the forward beam. It would have to be easily detached so as not to interfere with sailing. All and any inquiries welcome. We sail hard and would want to take a run at the front of the pack for what we are, an F28R that is fun and fast when the conditions are proper!
Dougie B
As the most successful F-Boat in this year’s Swiftsure, I think you have a moral obligation to try it and report back to the rest of us!!!
 

12 metre

Super Anarchist
3,933
733
English Bay
Interesting route that Fashionably Late seems to be taking, to the east of Duke Island? I see no advantage it it. Or is this just a long tack?
Just taking a flyer IMO - hoping the wind gods will intervene. This assumes they have cell reception where they are or could visibly sight Elsewhere - neither of which I am at all certain of.

They won't catch Elsewhere following them.

But now they have VV hot on their heels.
 

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