R2AK 2022

valis

Super Anarchist
3,782
610
Friday Harbor, WA
A few of you are being overly pedantic. Which is NOT the point of this race. They went past Bella Bella through Lama Passage. Good enough.
I agree, but remember that at least some of us aren't participating in the race. This gives us license to nitpick, complain, otherwise argue amongst ourselves. Nobody here is raising the red flag (I hope).
 

ProaSailor

dreaming my life away...
6,105
791
Oregon
A rules scrap is exactly what the R2AK is trying to avoid. Maybe the language can be cleaned up...
Yeah, but the R2AK organizers didn't write the rules clearly enough to avoid ambiguity so a "rules scrap" was inevitable, even though heavy social pressure (gaslighting) is applied from the top to keep anyone from questioning anything about the R2AK. Because it's just not cool!

*************** BEGIN QUOTE ***************

Official Rules​

Before we get to rules, R2AK was created not as a cutthroat competition but as the best way we know to spread excitement about the magic of onwater adventures that are human powered and sail driven and to remind us all that big adventure can be obtainable on virtually any budget.

You have integrity.​

By participating, you are affirming to live to a higher standard, that you believe how things are done are as important as what is accomplished.

You could eat your way to Alaska on a cruise ship but that’s not what this is about.​

R2AK was created to reduce the constructs to a bare minimum, trusting in the self-reliance, seamanship, and honor of our participants rather than relying on enforcement of an artificial body of rules. The spirit of this race lives in the camaraderie of the racers and the unwavering impartiality of the elements.
[...etc...]
*************** END QUOTE ***************

"artificial body of rules"? WTF is artificial about clearly written, unambiguous race rules? You know, like thousands of other sailboat race rules going back at least to when the schooner America won a race around the Isle of Wight in 1851, and likely well before that.

R2AK is too cool for school. Way cooler than mere spectators.

P.S. The Race Course page doesn't even mention Bella Bella at all. How cools is that? So simple!
 
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I agree, but remember that at least some of us aren't participating in the race. This gives us license to nitpick, complain, otherwise argue amongst ourselves. Nobody here is raising the red flag (I hop
A few of you are being overly pedantic. Which is NOT the point of this race. They went past Bella Bella through Lama Passage. Good enough.
Sorry Zonker. The whole point of this discussion is that they did not go “through” Lama pass.
 

SailingTips.Ca

Feigns Knowledge
789
338
Victoria, BC
I am curious about this because with the advent of canters and boats with transferable water ballast, I had assumed the rule disallowing movable ballast had been removed from RRS.

However, looking at the current RRS, Rule 51 is still in there:

51. MOVABLE BALLAST

All movable ballast, including sails that are not set, shall be properly stowed. Water, dead weight or ballast shall not be moved for the purpose of changing trim or stability. Floorboards, bulkheads, doors, stairs and water tanks shall be left in place and all cabin fixtures kept on board. However, bilge water may be bailed out.

I seem to recall canters and the like had to be given exemptions and so were not eligible to compete in every race. And they had to be rated for it of course.

I wonder how many boats race in violation of Rule 51?

Mind you, I'm an old curmudgeon who views stacking 6 bodies on the rail of a 30 footer as a violation of Rule 51 - at least in spirit.
I'm totally arm-chairing on this one but I've seen numerous reports (e.g. this Sail World article) that stacking takes place in the Volvo Ocean Race.

"Gybing these boats takes all hands. The off-watch crew is wakened and either brought on deck to assist with the manoeuvre or stay below to shift all the gear from one side of the boat to the other. The entire procedure can take around 30 minutes of hard physical labour. And the leaders are gybing more than once per hour at the moment."

I know race organizers often modify the RRS for particular events, so maybe they've done that for the Volvo Ocean Race?
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
9,664
5,621
Canada
A waypoint is a point folks. "Lama Passage near Bella Bella". See highlighted blue text below.


https://r2ak.com/official-rules/

Rule 4: Finish one of three ways:​

1. Do the short course and finish in Victoria

2. Do the full course and finish in Ketchikan


For the glory! Do the full monty within the time allowed:

750 miles from PT to AK, passing through the waypoint in Bella Bella, all before the sweep boat catches you.



From the Race Packet
Waypoint You must transit only one race waypoint—Lama Passage near Bella Bella. Why? Who knows… but that’s the deal.

In the “you figure it out” spirit that is the “charm” of the R2AK, proving your vessel has gone through the waypoints is totally on you. More unequivocally: the burden is on you to prove to the Race Boss that your team successfully transited the way points. No proof? No $10,000.

We scratched our heads a bit and came up with some other options you might use to to verify that your course passed through the waypoints: ● SPOT location track (this one works pretty damn well)
● Photo with newspaper date and someplace in close proximity to Seymour Narrows or Bella Bella that is geographically identifiable.
● Any other way you can think of that we will believe beyond a shadow of a doubt.
 

Sidecar

…………………………
3,120
1,490
Tasmania
Never seen anybody store anything significant in the amas. Having to carry something back and forth across tramps, under boom etc. would be painful and precarious and anything other than fenders and docklines are rarely a good idea out there.


It's an interesting question!

I know some offshore racing monos shift the sail stacks and supplies from one side to the other for optimal weight placement, but that's probably easier and safer on a monohull because you can do it all from below decks.

We shift crew to the low side in light air, then to the main hull and windward hull as the wind builds. Conceivably you should shift supplies too, but that could get precarious in a building breeze because you're opening hatches in amas and having to work outside.

I haven't done it nor heard of it but doesn't mean it's not a thing. Anybody else done or heard of this?

I wouldn’t be surprised if Mad Dog did?

Today’s dispatch from R2AK HQ:
 

valis

Super Anarchist
3,782
610
Friday Harbor, WA
Zonker, we've been over all this already. Some think that the previous and current acceptance by the R2AK of the "alternate" route overrides the perhaps ambiguous wording of the race rules. Others don't. Some see no ambiguity at all. I don't know what the R2AK-2022 racers would say if you asked them privately. I think we all believe that the rules should be clarified.
 

JohnMB

Super Anarchist
2,837
609
Evanston
I think we need to argue more about whether we have any right to argue about this....
or maybe we shouldn't even do that? Thoughts.... Opinions....
Anyone for Calvinball?
 

Talchotali

Capt. Marvel's Wise Friend
342
149
Vancouverium BC
So the elephant in the room. Should there be a separate inside and outside race prize, and two sets of steak knives? Or a set of steak knives and a chip'n'dip?

 
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SailingTips.Ca

Feigns Knowledge
789
338
Victoria, BC
There could be an inside and outside race, but remember that there have historically been four faster boats up the inside:

2016 (1st) 3d 20h 13m, MAD Dog Racing - 31.8’ (9.7m) Cat - Marstrom M32 (3 Crew)
2017 (1st) 4d 3h 5m, Pure & Wild / Freeburd - 28’ (8.5m) Tri - Cust. Tetzlaff / Melvin 8.5m Class (3 Crew)
2017 (2nd) 4d 3h 11m, Big Broderna - 30.8’ (9.4m) Tri - Corsair F-31R (4 Crew)
2019 (1st) 4d 3h 56m, Team Angry Beaver—Skiff Sailing Foundation - Schock 40 (6 Crew)
2022 (1st) 4d 4h 32m 39s, Pure & Wild - Riptide 44 (3 crew)

If P&W had destroyed MAD Dog's record maybe, but they didn't, and they arrived literally within 90 minutes of the three other fastest boats up the inside while rating faster than all of them except Mama Tried, to which they rate the same.

So inside vs. outside seems pretty fair to me...so far...
 

Sidecar

…………………………
3,120
1,490
Tasmania
Hard to beat Mad Dog’s time if everyone had to go inside. It was a well planned and well executed kamikazi mission In the right conditions.

Outside, an MOD 70 would eat it for breakfast. You only need an “engine” to leave Victoria dock.

For me, the race is not the same with the outside option.
 
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Talchotali

Capt. Marvel's Wise Friend
342
149
Vancouverium BC
Well put me down as the 2023 sponsor for the Chip'n'Dip platter for the best inside route finisher. They deserve a dedicated award purely for the exponential number of required tacks required by that route.
 

ProaSailor

dreaming my life away...
6,105
791
Oregon
Hard to beat Mad Dog’s time if everyone had to go inside. It was a well planned and well executed kamikazi mission.
Except they didn't die or crash into a big ship, of course... ;)

For me, the race is not the same with the outside option.
Imagine how different it would be without passing "through" Bella Bella - and using the outside option. :cool: A real race, and simpler!
 

SailingTips.Ca

Feigns Knowledge
789
338
Victoria, BC
Hard to beat Mad Dog’s time if everyone had to go inside. It was a well planned and well executed kamikazi mission.

Outside, an MOD 70 would eat it for breakfast. You only need an “engine” to leave Victoria dock.

For me, the race is not the same with the outside option.
I agree on all accounts.

I thought Ryan Breymaier and company were bringing up Tritium the ORMA 60 in 2016 but hit something on the delivery and had to turn back.

But since then nobody has shown much interest in bringing such a beast.

Maybe it's because the $10K is a drop in the bucket compared to how much the campaign would cost (it is for smaller boats too).

Maybe it's because ORMA 60 and MOD 70 owners like to beat other big and fast boats, and not a bunch of Farriers.
 

Sidecar

…………………………
3,120
1,490
Tasmania
I thought Ryan Breymaier and company were bringing up Tritium the ORMA 60 in 2016 but hit something on the delivery and had to turn back.

But since then nobody has shown much interest in bringing such a beast.

Maybe it's because the $10K is a drop in the bucket compared to how much the campaign would cost (it is for smaller boats too).
Big boats going up the inside without an engine, in narrow tide swept whirlpool infested channels with fickle and changeable winds is too risky. Never mind the logs. Russ Brown said as much when he rightly praised P&W’s effort this year.

You need to have your HP propulsion well and truly sorted. Hard if not impossible to do on really big boats.

No one is doing it for the 10k prize money. I am surprised that more of it hasn’t been given away to charity. Most of the R2AK winners (and their sponsors) aren’t short of a dollar.
 

Ripply

Member
99
51
Homer Alaska
You need to have your HP propulsion well and truly sorted. Hard if not impossible to do on really big boats

Gotta disagree on this one. Look at what Team Elsewhere did - they had an internal two person bike powered setup, so they could pedal inside. The bigger the boat gets, the more inside room for pedal stations and crew. Plenty of room for an internal 4 person pedal team on that Riptide 44. I imagine they would move along smartly and in comfort. Ok maybe not easy, but certainly not impossible.
 

Autonomous

Turgid Member
4,247
1,424
PNW
Yeah, but the R2AK organizers didn't write the rules clearly enough to avoid ambiguity so a "rules scrap" was inevitable, even though heavy social pressure (gaslighting) is applied from the top to keep anyone from questioning anything about the R2AK. Because it's just not cool!
Rather than sow sour grapes, offer some ideas to simplify and clarify the rules.
 

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