race instruments, tablets and software

[hart]

I've searched the forums here and have found useful information on instrument makes, and pro's and con's, and software, and tablets and PC's.......

I'd like to hear latest thinking on the options, and also a system for a tech-dummy like me. My preference is to maximise my sailing and racing time on a new boat, and minimise my time spent with my head in manuals, and downloading software, and staring at wiring diagrams that I will never understand.

I'm buying a J111, and up until now, the only instruments and technology I have ever had on previous boats is a gps and tacktick wireless. With the prosect of racing offshore, the consensus sesm to be that its good to have routeing software, and the preferred software sesm to be Expedition.

From looking at all the intstrument options, Nexus seems to be a good balance of reliability, cost, user-freindliness and accuracy, so a tick in the box for Nexus, and proabbaly NXR.

Then there is talk of the new Nexus race Box......and/or have a processor of some sort running Expedtion, and the Nexus software for calibration and configuring the data.

So my question then is what kind of processor type?; an i-pad in a case, a rugged laptop; a screen, a keyboard and processor kept on boat? With apps for i-phones and i-pads it's tempting to go the apple route so that devices in cockpit can access more data, but we won't be wanting a crew with their heads in i-phones, just the tactician accessing this data from the rail for convenience.

Clearly the sky is the limit with complexity and cost, so I was wondering if anyone has a simple, intuitive and reliable system they would recommend?

 

[Streetwise]

Great question, and one that should be asked again every year as technology marches on.

I have not had the luxury of spending on new instruments, but the Nexus stuff tempts me the most.

For NMEA to wifi (having not tested anything myself yet), I like the feature set of the DMK box the best so far: http://dmkyacht.com/

However, I do networking and computer stuff for a living. I'm currently looking at how to integrate iPad and iPhone with the Raymarine stuff on my family's C&C 99, plus add a nice compass. I've been spending way too much time lately researching decent solutions for putting NMEA data on wifi while simultaneously supporting multiple ways to connect to the internet (marina/club wifi, 3G/4G USB cards, iPad/iPhone tethering, etc.).

Can I ask what your hopes are regarding the internet portion of this?

Right now, I am researching cheaper solutions to put serial NMEA data on UDP and/or TCP.

If I had the money for a J/111 (much respect) and wanted to spend money rather than hours and hours of geek hobby time on this, I would get a CradlePoint MBR-1400 to run the network on the boat.

http://www.cradlepoint.com/products/branch-office-retail-pos/mbr1400-mission-critical-broadband-router

This would provide a consistent wireless network for the boat, rather than doing ad-hoc networking between whatever devices were in use that day. It would support getting internet from your club/marine wifi (memorizing as many networks as you have passwords for), and switching automatically to 3G/4G modems that you plug in when offshore. Then I would use a DMK box (or similar) to connect to the boat wifi and broadcast to iPads/iPhones and/or Expedition.

The only wrinkle I am finding is that if I were to use the Verizon Personal Hotspot feature on my iPad to share internet to the boat, I might not be able to see the NMEA data, since I would be on the WAN side rather than the LAN side of the network, although I could probably do port forwarding to deal with that. Money being no object, I would just always have a 3G/4G usb modem for the boat and never do tethering. There are fewer problems if you have the budget for more per month boat expenses.

(My cheap way is using a DD-WRT/OpenWRT compatible router that I can solder a serial port on to talk to the Raymarine NMEA box I bought on ebay, and figure out the . More work, but I have the gear).

Also, regarding iPads and iPhones: I am a big fan, but I would not have them as the only devices doing the computing work for your boat data. You should think of them as graphical interface and analysis devices for your boat data. Let them do startline functions, display all sorts of graphs and cool data feeds, but make sure you boat is getting/processing/displaying data even when the iPad gets put away or the iPhone goes to sleep. I would even be tempted to use an iPad on the mast, since some of the NMEA display apps are so sweet. Just make sure you have some sort of server that can run all the time, like the Nexus box or whatever.

Good luck!

jason

 

[Heriberto]

Offshore where? Offshore what? Offshore how far and long?

 

[hart]

Offshore where? Offshore what? Offshore how far and long?

SE Asia, 4-5 days at sea each passage.

 

[bobbaker]

I think that Nexus with the latest smarter sensors ( hpc compass, n wind race, and fast gps) is a good choice. But then I have one with mix of nx2 and NXR.

Software:Unfortunately it seems that all the full featured race capable software is necessarily large, complex (with many hundred k lines of code, often integrated with the charting software from eg cmap.) This has usually been developed over many years only runs on windows. The market size is small which limits the incentive to create or port onto other platforms.

I have Expedition and the manual says "Windows XP SP3, Vista SP2 or Windows 7, 32 or 64 bit'System requirementsWindows 7 with a graphics processor is recommended.Windows XP is not recommended in the medium term as upcoming Microsoft software used to develop Exp will not support XP.."

If you go this way then the foc Nexus Race software is useful for calibration and only runs on 32bit systems.

The classic way of achieving portability is with a Panasonic tough book wireless screen (cf07 which is long since out of manufacture) or equivalent linked to a below deck windows pc.

NXR is really nice to use and the screen configurability is great. You probably want to be able to store waypointsw and routes 24/7 without reliance on the pc which can be solved by getting a nx2 gps instrument to link to the nexus server - rather archaic but does work.

Ask if you want more details.

Bob

 

[left hook]

Offshore where? Offshore what? Offshore how far and long?

SE Asia, 4-5 days at sea each passage.

Find out what tuffy and ferret are running on the Foxy Gaydee

 

[Streetwise]

Offshore where? Offshore what? Offshore how far and long?

SE Asia, 4-5 days at sea each passage.

Find out what tuffy and ferret are running on the Foxy Gaydee

While the choice of tech shouldn't be location-based, the choice of supplier and installer might be.

 

[Heriberto]

I apologize in advance if this offends, but is the cart before the horse here? I'm reading between the lines (GPS and Tactic) and wonder how much bluewater cruising have you done? Offshore navigation? I know this is hopelessly old-fashioned, but these are all navigational assistants to the indispensible tools you should have, paper charts, pencil, log, and yeah, multiple gps and compasses.

You don't really need instruments tied into your computer, though that is a bonus. The first priority is the above, and knowing how to use them. The next priority is you need a standard set of instruments, then you want a chartplotter. The next improvement would be a laptop running Expedition. A way to hook it up to the internet to get gribs would definitly be the next improvement. Next would be getting the instruments into the computer. Next would be getting routing and angles from the computer into your instruments to display on deck. But after the first priority, the rest are just improvements.

But the old-fashioned "Hey, if the wind remains stable, steer a course of 243 for the next half hour. Our next waypoint is X at Y bearing and z distance." works pretty well too.

 

[Distance]

Great question, and one that should be asked again every year as technology marches on.

I have not had the luxury of spending on new instruments, but the Nexus stuff tempts me the most.

For NMEA to wifi (having not tested anything myself yet), I like the feature set of the DMK box the best so far: http://dmkyacht.com/

However, I do networking and computer stuff for a living. I'm currently looking at how to integrate iPad and iPhone with the Raymarine stuff on my family's C&C 99, plus add a nice compass. I've been spending way too much time lately researching decent solutions for putting NMEA data on wifi while simultaneously supporting multiple ways to connect to the internet (marina/club wifi, 3G/4G USB cards, iPad/iPhone tethering, etc.).

Can I ask what your hopes are regarding the internet portion of this?

Right now, I am researching cheaper solutions to put serial NMEA data on UDP and/or TCP.

If I had the money for a J/111 (much respect) and wanted to spend money rather than hours and hours of geek hobby time on this, I would get a CradlePoint MBR-1400 to run the network on the boat.

http://www.cradlepoi...roadband-router

This would provide a consistent wireless network for the boat, rather than doing ad-hoc networking between whatever devices were in use that day. It would support getting internet from your club/marine wifi (memorizing as many networks as you have passwords for), and switching automatically to 3G/4G modems that you plug in when offshore. Then I would use a DMK box (or similar) to connect to the boat wifi and broadcast to iPads/iPhones and/or Expedition.

The only wrinkle I am finding is that if I were to use the Verizon Personal Hotspot feature on my iPad to share internet to the boat, I might not be able to see the NMEA data, since I would be on the WAN side rather than the LAN side of the network, although I could probably do port forwarding to deal with that. Money being no object, I would just always have a 3G/4G usb modem for the boat and never do tethering. There are fewer problems if you have the budget for more per month boat expenses.

(My cheap way is using a DD-WRT/OpenWRT compatible router that I can solder a serial port on to talk to the Raymarine NMEA box I bought on ebay, and figure out the . More work, but I have the gear).

Also, regarding iPads and iPhones: I am a big fan, but I would not have them as the only devices doing the computing work for your boat data. You should think of them as graphical interface and analysis devices for your boat data. Let them do startline functions, display all sorts of graphs and cool data feeds, but make sure you boat is getting/processing/displaying data even when the iPad gets put away or the iPhone goes to sleep. I would even be tempted to use an iPad on the mast, since some of the NMEA display apps are so sweet. Just make sure you have some sort of server that can run all the time, like the Nexus box or whatever.

Good luck!

jason

Hyerstay, Thanks for liking our stuff. The priorities we had when developing the DMK Box was to make it reliable and simple to use for non computer people. I was painting boat bottoms when we first started the project. DMK is developing an infrastructure mode for our box that will take care of most of the networking scenarios you describe but that adds to the complication on board. However a higher priority for us is getting others to develop more apps and features on more platforms with simple user connections. This will be my second summer using our box and app along with iNavX. I love it because it connects to my antiquated instruments and keeps us much safer in the fog. And it cost less than $1000 -The K in DMK

 

[Streetwise]

Hyerstay, Thanks for liking our stuff. The priorities we had when developing the DMK Box was to make it reliable and simple to use for non computer people. I was painting boat bottoms when we first started the project. DMK is developing an infrastructure mode for our box that will take care of most of the networking scenarios you describe but that adds to the complication on board. However a higher priority for us is getting others to develop more apps and features on more platforms with simple user connections. This will be my second summer using our box and app along with iNavX. I love it because it connects to my antiquated instruments and keeps us much safer in the fog. And it cost less than $1000 -The K in DMK

What is the timeframe for supporting WPA2 AES/TKIP infrastructure mode?

 

[Oxygen Mask]

... a system for a tech-dummy like me...

.. to maximise my sailing and racing time on a new boat, and minimise my time spent with my head in manuals, and downloading software, and staring at wiring diagrams that I will never understand....

... wondering if anyone has a simple, intuitive and reliable system they would recommend?

Old school?

 

[WunHungLo]

I'm going to make the assumption that the OP at least knows how to navigate without all the new stuff, however since he asked, here's an example for a J111 doing some offshore racing:

- Any decent instrument package for speed, wind, depth, compass, that brand's processor for instrument integration and calibration, and at a minimum, I/O ports for at least NMEA 0183

- rugged/marinized PC running Windows 7 (e.g. a Panasonic Toughbook) in order to use Expedition and its routing, racing and other great features. You could even use a couple of cheap laptops running Win7, (one being a backup) for the price of one Toughbook

- Expedition costs approx $1300 and then add the costs for the C-MAP charts for your area. (it also supports NOAA charts for the USA)

- Iridium handheld Satphone to access grib data when you want, where you want (with a fixed external antenna and a docking bay for clean installation and USB connection to the PC). Yes you can go with SSB and free airtime to get files via Saildocs, but the satphone gets the job done simply, anywhere, including away from the boat compared to the infrastructure needed for SSB.

- a WIFI multiplexer (MUX) if you want to have access via iPhone/iPad apps. - I recently installed a Shipmodul Miniplex 2. Nice PC configuration software, USB OUT to PC, RS232/422 OUT, WIFI OUT, and a no brainer to connect Seatalk, NMEA 0183, and AIS INPUTS

- Fixed GPS with NMEA 0183 out, fed to the multiplexer

- iPad with INAVX, plus the Navionics charts for your area via the x-Traverse distributor (who also distribute other charts for the iPad/iPhone)

- waterproof case for the iPad/iPhone - NOTE: these devices don't have great battery life and need frequent recharging. I suggest installing a waterproof power supply in the cockpit plus find a case with a built in battery pack. e.g. I use a Magellan Toughcase with my iPhone; it has a supplemental battery giving 8hrs approx plus its own built in GPS receiver.

- Type A & B AIS receiver with NMEA out to the multiplexer - some come with their own GPS which gives you a backup GPS feed to Expedition via the Multiplexer - the Shipmodul alutomatically accepts two simultaneous GPS inputs and has the brains to filter out the duplicate data, and then allow the duplicate if the primary GPS fails. All the AIS targets show up on Expedition too. There are pros and cons of getting an AIS transponder versus just a receiver. If you get a class A transponder, then all commercial traffic can see you (much better than radar). If you get just a class B transponder, you could get filtered out because commercial traffic is permitted to do so to reduce their screen clutter.

- VHF with DSC connected to the NMEA out from the multiplexer.

- Expert GPS software to store/backup your database of waypoints and use to exchange waypoint and route data between different devices that may or may nor have the same GPX file formats

The boat I regularly race on has barely visible displays (crew in way., old displays, and polarized sun glasses) and so getting a Wifi NMEA feed to my iPhone/iNavx for all the Ockam NMEA data as well as AIS is a cost effective solution for nav and tactics on deck. If I need any optimal routing suggestions from Expedition, I can quickly duck below as and when needed. Last week I was racing offshore for a few days on a different boat with just an iPhone and Magellan Toughcase in my pocket and not connected via to anything other than a Raymarine e7 MFD via its wifi broadcast using their dumb ass iphone app. It only supplies a remote screen to the e7 and not the underlying NMEA data stream like the Shipmodul wifi Mux. The Nav station was running Expedition on a Panasonic Toughbook. I had waypoints and the route transferred from Expedition so I could still get on iNavx, bearing and distance to waypoint, time to waypoint, ETA, charts of the area, heading, COG, SOG etc ..Anything else I needed was visible on the external instrument repeaters. I didn't have to keep ducking below to check out Expedition when approaching waypoints or coastal obstacles.

The setup example I listed above fully integrates your environment from instruments, through Expedition, to the iPad/iNavx using a simple Mux. It will work with any instrument package you like e.g. Raymarine, B&G, Nexus, Ockam. etc.....

 

[Distance]

Hyerstay, Thanks for liking our stuff. The priorities we had when developing the DMK Box was to make it reliable and simple to use for non computer people. I was painting boat bottoms when we first started the project. DMK is developing an infrastructure mode for our box that will take care of most of the networking scenarios you describe but that adds to the complication on board. However a higher priority for us is getting others to develop more apps and features on more platforms with simple user connections. This will be my second summer using our box and app along with iNavX. I love it because it connects to my antiquated instruments and keeps us much safer in the fog. And it cost less than $1000 -The K in DMK

What is the timeframe for supporting WPA2 AES/TKIP infrastructure mode?

We have it working for some customers but ran into issues with different hardware all being a little different with the DHCP assignment. Because we are just a three person company we decided to focus on what we had tested very well which was an ad-hoc connection for smaller boats. However depending on which router you would connect to it might already be developed but just needs more testing. The nice thing though is when we do have it working the firmware will be available to any box out there and it will be simple to upgrade using the DMK App.