Raider

J

Jerryd

Anarchist
726
0
There's been a lot of good discussion about the newest hiking dinghy's, such as the Aero and the Zero. Both seem like great boats. But, what's the problem with the Raider? It's been around a lot longer and seems to have had some good ideas. Is it too heavy, underpowered, too much drag? I wonder if with some changes it could be made competitive with these new boats?

Being local for us here in the U.S., it would be another great option!

 
F

Foxy

Member
465
0
Sebastian FL
The raider's only real problem is that there has never been enough promotion. The builder has been around for years and does a great job on all the boats he builds. There was an update to the hull and rig a couple of years ago which improves speed and also makes it more friendly to take a second person along.

There are quite a few of them around, but many of the owners do not race the boat and just enjoy sailing them.

 
John D

John D

Member
491
21
Sebastian, FL
Jerry, good questions. Thanks for the post

The builder dose'nt participate in promoting OD racing like the others mentioned. Should he? Another good question. So far, that direction has been a very risky business undertaking with more loosers than winners.I'm sure he will help OD, class or portsmouth racing when asked but mainly markets to the general small boat sailing community and does a good job at it. Recently, he has taken on the production of the Windmill class boats and has been very successful at that but the class does the marketing.

The Raider was designed to be a fast, comfortable, easy to sail single or double handed dinghy that is competitive in regattas and moderately priced. So far, the reception has shown the goals were met. I'm sure the builder would greatly support any effort to starting a class in your or any area in the US or Can.

Is it too heavy? With a hull weight avg.of 205 lbs., maybe too heavy for some (ie: car topping) but fairly light for a 16 footer in its performance class.

underpowered? Not hardly unless you like to include frequent swimming with your sailing experience. The good light air performance of the Raider is well documented. The Turbo Sport model has plenty of up and down wind sail area

too much drag? As with all the newer performance dinghys, the Raider performs best when sailed flat. When sailing healed with the wings in the water, there is additional drag. But, it also keeps the boat upright.

I wonder if with some changes it could be made competitive with these new boats? Jerry, it may already may be competitive. Time will tell. It is already more than competitive considering the price / value.

Foxxy's comment about the owners simply enjoy sailing them can't be too bad either.

This is my $.02 but don't hesitate to contact the builder

John D

 
J

Jerryd

Anarchist
726
0
John D.

As we all know, there has been plenty of dicussion on these new high performance hiking dinghys including the Zim, Aero, Zero, RS100 and the others mentioned he frequently. I thought maybe that with a design that has been around for a while, maybe some tweaking would bring it in to the same performance category.

However, if the marketing concept for the Raider is as a comfortable daysailor with occasional racing, then maybe its not all that important?

Just a thought.

 
Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,094
7,613
Eastern NC
Foxxy said:
.... ...

There are quite a few of them around, but many of the owners do not race the boat and just enjoy sailing them.
Click to expand...
And that's a big testament to the boat's good characteristics IMHO.

Jerry, I had a loaner Raider for a week up here, asked you to come test sail it. We tried in drifters, light, moderate, and one pretty good afternoon seabreeze. Very good all-around boat, great ergonomics. I'd prefer a centerboard in a boat that size, but it's not a biggie. And one of the best points is the reserve buoyancy. You can hold the mast head to the water and it will pop back up.

FB- Doug

 
J

Jerryd

Anarchist
726
0
Steam Flyer,

Never got the invitation. I think you mean the VX-One.

I sailed the boat when I lived in Sebastian. Just think with the market for some of these kinds of boats, maybe its time to revisit the design.

 
S

sailwriter

Anarchist
915
155
North Alabama TVA lakes
That 91.4 Portsmouth rating is for the original, mainsail-only Raider.

The new molds with a little more rocker in the hull and a fuller bow area added a jib.

Now rates 89.1.

However, while this handicap has been used for some years now, USSAILING just does not seem to be interested in posting it.

Believe me, several of us have asked, cajoled, complained, whined. Nothing.

So the 89.1 is derived from the "add a jib" factor in the tables. If the boat is well sailed it is a fair handicap.

In my opinion, the Raider II has enough performance. If it were made 50# lighter it would be a bit faster.

I just like a solid, long lasting craft that is difficult to capsize, easy to right if one manages, and has the asymmetrical spin for fun.

I have the last of the original hulls. It has a catamaran mainsail with two reefs in case I can ever afford to do the Everglades Challenge, International Canoe jib on a wishbone 'club', a longer dagger board and a IC-style pry that sticks out three feet to whichever is the windward side. Bag snuffed asymmetrical spinnaker.

Wanna race?

Dave Ellis

Raider #99

 
Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,094
7,613
Eastern NC
Jerryd said:
Steam Flyer,

Never got the invitation. I think you mean the VX-One.

I sailed the boat when I lived in Sebastian. Just think with the market for some of these kinds of boats, maybe its time to revisit the design.
Click to expand...
Nope, I mean the Raider. You should be flattered that you were on my list of people invited to sail it. That was a couple of years ago.

sailwriter said:
That 91.4 Portsmouth rating is for the original, mainsail-only Raider.

The new molds with a little more rocker in the hull and a fuller bow area added a jib.

Now rates 89.1.

However, while this handicap has been used for some years now, USSAILING just does not seem to be interested in posting it.

Believe me, several of us have asked, cajoled, complained, whined. Nothing.

So the 89.1 is derived from the "add a jib" factor in the tables. If the boat is well sailed it is a fair handicap.

... ...
Click to expand...
US Sailing has pretty much dropped supporting the Portsmouth handicaps, which is a shame. From what I can see, the Raider would be a good match at a few points faster too. I think it could use a bit more daggerboard in light air but it does move.

Biggest problem with the Raider is that they are so unconventional looking. US sailors want something from the 1930s. Just look at the popular classes, the Laser is the newest one by 2 or 3 decades!

FB- Doug

 
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S

sailwriter

Anarchist
915
155
North Alabama TVA lakes
Ah, but the IC and I-14 are not the same as they were.

I sailed an IC built in the 1980s. Was much heavier and not nearly as fast as the "new rules" IC's of today.

My great uncle sailed I-14s in the 1940s and '50's. The boat was more the shape of today's Albacore, a true Uffa
Fox creation. I just truck-topped a newer I-14 from California to across the border from Toronto. That boat wanted to go faster than I could go on Interstate 80.

The Raider is not of that genre and was never intended to be so.

At age 70 I can still sail the performance boats.

But not competitively.

Hence, I sail a boat that I can comfortably handle.

Also, I can leave it at the dock in the water and go get a beverage at the club.

One gets priorities as one matures.

Dave Ellis

 
C

cavi

Member
237
0
Red Bluff Ca
I love mine but the OP was comparing to the D-zero and the Aero. This is not meant to be anything like those boats. First off it is 16 feet, not 14 or less. Second the design is much nicer....

I do think the only issue is lack of promotion. I currently own the Raider 2 and a Megabyte and I cannot believe these two boats cost the same amount of money new. The Raider is way more boat. that bieng said I am happier with two people on the raider. The raider is very sensitive to weight distribution, and even in low wind it is nice to have and extra body onboard to place on the leeward side so you can sit on the deck and be a bit more stable. the extra weight does not phase the boat much at all.

 
J

Joshua

New member
44
0
NY
I'm going to W. Palm before the holidays and going to head up to Vero Beach to the Raider Builder for a day. He's got a demo there with the furling spin and is finishing another with the conventional assm. if I want to try it. If I get one I'm going to be mostly (maybe always) singlehanding. but some time taking the G.F. who is really not into boating unless it has a entertainment deck and helipad.

Any thoughts on spin type.

Thanks

Josh

 
S

sailwriter

Anarchist
915
155
North Alabama TVA lakes
Joshua, I have sailed both the furling "screecher" version and the assymetrical spinnaker that stuffs into the sock.

Here's my opinion, bearing in mind I'm a racing guy:

The furling is more convenient. One pull and it is out of the way; uncleat and pull on the approprate sheet and it deploys.

Works every time on either jibe.

The deciding factor for me, however, is that I cannot abide having that furled sail up there when I am going upwind. Windage.

To furl and then get it down is difficult for one person. With crew, OK, but take a look at the Volvo Ocean Race boats and the AC boats when they take down that furled sail. Goes all over the deck and has to be kept aboard by skilled crew. This, obviously is much smaller, but with the same issue.

I like the spinnaker that snuffs because it is out of the way when not in use. More of a hassle to deploy and douse, yes.

Just takes practice.

I have a FrankenRaider, a left-over original mold hull with scavanged parts from all kinds of boats to make it sail. With an anything-goes mentality I chose the assymetrical with sock. (My wife manufactures the socks, so that helps!)

But then, my "Raider X" has an IC-style sliding seat, so I'm weird.

Dave Ellis

Tampa Bay, Florida

Raider #99

 
Dex Sawash

Dex Sawash

Demi Anarchrist
2,414
661
NC USA
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