RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[DryArmour]

that defines Chris quite well.

Since the owner seems very accessible to the media,how about bagging him for an interview!

http://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/ebe7814536d981fd319ab0146a22bda1/0x600.jpg?fit=scale&background=000000

+1

 

[DDW]

^^ Just wait for the followup Forbes article.

 

[fastyacht]

Just off the phone with pro skipper of Rainmaker; it will take a day or two, but we will get the story out as soon as we can.

"Pro Skipper" as apposed to a Amateur Skipper?

I can understand that. I have more of a problem with a 'very experienced' 28 years old captain.But I'm betting he did fine and a lot more to the story. Ankle deep water in the disruptive technology wine cellar or something

freaked the owner out.

Having crossed oceans at that age with some older people aboard, I can tell you that older age most definitely does not make for wiser in any automatic sense, and time on the sea + fundamental judgement makes for great leaders in the 28 year age.

Plenty of ferry skippers are in their 20s. One of the skippers that was first on scene to rescue sully was 19--she ran one of Arthur Imperatore's NY Waterways ferries. She was more than qualified to do her job.

 

[DryArmour]

Just off the phone with pro skipper of Rainmaker; it will take a day or two, but we will get the story out as soon as we can.

"Pro Skipper" as apposed to a Amateur Skipper?

I can understand that. I have more of a problem with a 'very experienced' 28 years old captain.But I'm betting he did fine and a lot more to the story. Ankle deep water in the disruptive technology wine cellar or something

freaked the owner out.

Having crossed oceans at that age with some older people aboard, I can tell you that older age most definitely does not make for wiser in any automatic sense, and time on the sea + fundamental judgement makes for great leaders in the 28 year age.

Plenty of ferry skippers are in their 20s. One of the skippers that was first on scene to rescue sully was 19--she ran one of Arthur Imperatore's NY Waterways ferries. She was more than qualified to do her job.

Experience not age are what I would be looking at. One does not necessarily gain sea time experience simply by being older.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Just off the phone with pro skipper of Rainmaker; it will take a day or two, but we will get the story out as soon as we can.

"Pro Skipper" as apposed to a Amateur Skipper?

I can understand that. I have more of a problem with a 'very experienced' 28 years old captain.But I'm betting he did fine and a lot more to the story. Ankle deep water in the disruptive technology wine cellar or something

freaked the owner out.

Having crossed oceans at that age with some older people aboard, I can tell you that older age most definitely does not make for wiser in any automatic sense, and time on the sea + fundamental judgement makes for great leaders in the 28 year age.Plenty of ferry skippers are in their 20s. One of the skippers that was first on scene to rescue sully was 19--she ran one of Arthur Imperatore's NY Waterways ferries. She was more than qualified to do her job.

Mark,

Just tried to pm me but inbox full

Experience not age are what I would be looking at. One does not necessarily gain sea time experience simply by being older.

 

[Matt DI]

If you look at the merchant world, there are many captains of full sidecar ships that are barely 30.

 

[Veeger]

If you look at the merchant world, there are many captains of full sidecar ships that are barely 30.

Indeed. I knew some that were UNDER 30.

Me? I was a late bloomer. Wasn't Master until 33.

 

[floater]

Just off the phone with pro skipper of Rainmaker; it will take a day or two, but we will get the story out as soon as we can.

Monday?

 

[floater]

Umm to return to a previously discussed topic, somewhere way up there, I'm not sure if the loss of the rig was ever really reolved as having been caused by the "wall of wind".

I would agree with the assertions that wind should never ever blow a rig off a boat- wind could cause a jibe which might rip out a piece of standing rigging that would cause a collapse, but wind should blow a catamaran right over in a capsize before causing standing rigging failure- unless this was in fact a "fuse" which IMHO would be insane. Other than the fuse scenario the rig should be designed to resist any righting moment or any other loads that might be imposed. If it didn't, say because of shock loading due to violent side to side rolling/whipping or something, than this is a design failure which should be rectified, as would be a component failure.

Can I get an amen?

Momentary loads on a catamaran can be off the charts. When Aikane X-5 came to town (Choy built 65' catamaran) and North Sails built the sails for her, North estimated maximum momentary loads on the mainsheet of something like 12,000lbs. When we put a load cell on it we found that they were more than double that on a regular basis. If these guys got caught in a squall line of 70 knot straight line winds that were up from 35 knots and the gust occurred while the foils were in full down mode, I could see an under engineered piece of rigging blowing up and the rig coming down.

I agree completely as far as this goes, loads can be huge, rigging can fail, masts can come down.
The point though is that they shouldn't. It should blow the boat over first. If not then either some element failed prematurely or it was under designed to begin with. It's something that you'd want to correct. Rigs should resist all boat motion and wind loads.

Hitting a bridge, rolling it underwater, stuff like that is different.

<edit: you said that up there, didn't you? "under engineered piece of rigging">

what about the sails.
Would similarly think the sails should go way before the rig itself.

 

[Bruce T. Shark]

I think you guys mean something like this?

Master,Unlimited, Oceans and Near Coastal?

not

National Master 500/1600 Tons, GL and Inland

R/X3rd Assistant Steam and Motor vessels, Unlimited HP

 

[DryArmour]

I cleared out some space in my inbox for ya. Sorry about that.

 

[joneisberg]

Umm to return to a previously discussed topic, somewhere way up there, I'm not sure if the loss of the rig was ever really reolved as having been caused by the "wall of wind".

I would agree with the assertions that wind should never ever blow a rig off a boat- wind could cause a jibe which might rip out a piece of standing rigging that would cause a collapse, but wind should blow a catamaran right over in a capsize before causing standing rigging failure- unless this was in fact a "fuse" which IMHO would be insane. Other than the fuse scenario the rig should be designed to resist any righting moment or any other loads that might be imposed. If it didn't, say because of shock loading due to violent side to side rolling/whipping or something, than this is a design failure which should be rectified, as would be a component failure.

Can I get an amen?

Momentary loads on a catamaran can be off the charts. When Aikane X-5 came to town (Choy built 65' catamaran) and North Sails built the sails for her, North estimated maximum momentary loads on the mainsheet of something like 12,000lbs. When we put a load cell on it we found that they were more than double that on a regular basis. If these guys got caught in a squall line of 70 knot straight line winds that were up from 35 knots and the gust occurred while the foils were in full down mode, I could see an under engineered piece of rigging blowing up and the rig coming down.

I agree completely as far as this goes, loads can be huge, rigging can fail, masts can come down.
The point though is that they shouldn't. It should blow the boat over first. If not then either some element failed prematurely or it was under designed to begin with. It's something that you'd want to correct. Rigs should resist all boat motion and wind loads.

Hitting a bridge, rolling it underwater, stuff like that is different.

<edit: you said that up there, didn't you? "under engineered piece of rigging">

what about the sails.
Would similarly think the sails should go way before the rig itself.

Well, if Stanley Paris were sailing her, there might be a good chance of that...

;-)

 

[joneisberg]

Just off the phone with pro skipper of Rainmaker; it will take a day or two, but we will get the story out as soon as we can.

"Pro Skipper" as apposed to a Amateur Skipper?

I can understand that. I have more of a problem with a 'very experienced' 28 years old captain.But I'm betting he did fine and a lot more to the story. Ankle deep water in the disruptive technology wine cellar or something

freaked the owner out.

Having crossed oceans at that age with some older people aboard, I can tell you that older age most definitely does not make for wiser in any automatic sense, and time on the sea + fundamental judgement makes for great leaders in the 28 year age.

Plenty of ferry skippers are in their 20s. One of the skippers that was first on scene to rescue sully was 19--she ran one of Arthur Imperatore's NY Waterways ferries. She was more than qualified to do her job.

Experience not age are what I would be looking at. One does not necessarily gain sea time experience simply by being older.

In addition, experience with such a highly specialized boat as a Gunboat in particular, would seem to account for a lot... Sort of like "dog years"... ;-) I would guess a great deal of what many of us have learned over the years, might have very little application to sailing a boat like RAINMAKER offshore, in sporty conditions...

And, by all the accounts I've seen, the skipper Chris Bailet is one of the more experienced sailors of those particular boats out there today, something that might easily belie his comparatively young age...

 

[Boo-Yah]

You would prefer a multi to flip before the rig breaks from a shock or impact type load? I would have to go with a dropped rig over upside down, particularly 200 miles from home.

Still, I've never heard of a builder building a "safety fuse" into rigging...

Not intentionally, but they do them accidentally all the time!

You do not have to spend long around the BVI charter docks to see travelers pulled out on the bareboat charter cats. Whether that is intentional design, bad installation work, or something else would need additional expert study. I have noted a bunch of broken travelers. Some rigs over the side along with many rigs way out of tune or tension. Maybe someone else will contradict. There are many broken charter catamarans but no pictures of any upside down. Thousands of crews, thousands of days, thousands of puffs and storms. They bust before they flip.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

You would prefer a multi to flip before the rig breaks from a shock or impact type load? I would have to go with a dropped rig over upside down, particularly 200 miles from home.

Still, I've never heard of a builder building a "safety fuse" into rigging...

Not intentionally, but they do them accidentally all the time!

You do not have to spend long around the BVI charter docks to see travelers pulled out on the bareboat charter cats. Whether that is intentional design, bad installation work, or something else would need additional expert study. I have noted a bunch of broken travelers. Some rigs over the side along with many rigs way out of tune or tension. Maybe someone else will contradict. There are many broken charter catamarans but no pictures of any upside down. Thousands of crews, thousands of days, thousands of puffs and storms. They bust before they flip.

Different story. Those cats are so underpowered they'd need 40 knots to flip. It is however quite easy to put the mainsheet on the power winch and gently pull the traveler out of the deck

 

[Boo-Yah]

You would prefer a multi to flip before the rig breaks from a shock or impact type load? I would have to go with a dropped rig over upside down, particularly 200 miles from home.

Still, I've never heard of a builder building a "safety fuse" into rigging...

Not intentionally, but they do them accidentally all the time!

You do not have to spend long around the BVI charter docks to see travelers pulled out on the bareboat charter cats. Whether that is intentional design, bad installation work, or something else would need additional expert study. I have noted a bunch of broken travelers. Some rigs over the side along with many rigs way out of tune or tension. Maybe someone else will contradict. There are many broken charter catamarans but no pictures of any upside down. Thousands of crews, thousands of days, thousands of puffs and storms. They bust before they flip.

Different story. Those cats are so underpowered they'd need 40 knots to flip. It is however quite easy to put the mainsheet on the power winch and gently pull the traveler out of the deck

Yes, very different than a Gunboat or the like. But, with so many boats out on so many days they do see burst to 40 and much more. The monos will go down to the rail and beyond in most cases with little damage. Every once in a while they will flood through and open hatch and sink. The Cat's bust something? Is that the intentional fuse some opine?

 

[Edith Bicknell]

I dont get this fuse concept. So if you are really caught out in some serious bare poles snot, now among everyting else

you have to worry about if a rigging fuse is going to go off somewhere? Bollocks!

 

[Boo-Yah]

I dont get this fuse concept. So if you are really caught out in some serious bare poles snot, now among everyting else

you have to worry about if a rigging fuse is going to go off somewhere? Bollocks!

Another way to look at it? If you had a "fuse" where would you put it? What part of the engineering would you want to let go? I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

I bet if you read all the marketing hype and fluff the some of the Gunboat team got ahead of themselves.

 

[Mark Morwood]

...

I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

 

[jzk]

Viewed Toccata today. What a sweet ride she is. With the previous gunboats I have seen, I didn't like the helm inside. But with Toccata, enough stuff opens to give it a nice feel regardless.