RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[longy]

...

I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

...

I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

OK, 2nd part of B/Y's statement is monohull specific. But for a multi, is most loaded position when weather hull just lifts clear of the water??? Surely GB engineer for that condition. Further heel reduces loading as the lever arm shortens. The concept of a 'fuse' is ludicrous, as is sails breaking on cue. Rigs must take all conceivable conditions in stride without incident. The risk of further damage to the floaty bits is too high. Farrier may deliberatelt design his 'C' foils to a max load & state that they must be partially raised at a wind limit, but a busted foil shouldnt risk the yacht sinking.

 

[DryArmour]

...

I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

...

I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

OK, 2nd part of B/Y's statement is monohull specific. But for a multi, is most loaded position when weather hull just lifts clear of the water??? Surely GB engineer for that condition. Further heel reduces loading as the lever arm shortens. The concept of a 'fuse' is ludicrous, as is sails breaking on cue. Rigs must take all conceivable conditions in stride without incident. The risk of further damage to the floaty bits is too high. Farrier may deliberatelt design his 'C' foils to a max load & state that they must be partially raised at a wind limit, but a busted foil shouldnt risk the yacht sinking.

Ellen MacArthur is all of 5'2 tall yet she somehow managed to SINGLE-HAND a maxi multi around the entire planet non stop with no major equipment or seamanship issues. Multihulls do quite well at sea in almost all conditions provided the people operating them know WTF they are doing. I have spent a fair amount of time at sea on both big monohulls and big multihulls and I have no preference when it comes to safety or seaworthiness. The idea that a seaworthy yacht must be able to put the tip of the mast in the water and recover is fine for boats with so little stability that knock-downs are entirely likely and built into the design. Multihulls are just so much more stable that there should never be a time that the heel gets to the critical point assuming those on the strings and helm know what they are doing.

Just my opinion mind you./..your mileage may vary.

 

[DDW]

...assuming those on the strings and helm know what they are doing.

On many cruising boats the strings are cleated hard and the autopilot has the helm. That is certainly the case on mine 99% of the time. A cruising boat that requires someone on the strings and helm that also knows what they are doing needs very different management than average.

 

[Keith]

You would prefer a multi to flip before the rig breaks from a shock or impact type load? I would have to go with a dropped rig over upside down, particularly 200 miles from home.

Still, I've never heard of a builder building a "safety fuse" into rigging...

Not intentionally, but they do them accidentally all the time!

You do not have to spend long around the BVI charter docks to see travelers pulled out on the bareboat charter cats. Whether that is intentional design, bad installation work, or something else would need additional expert study. I have noted a bunch of broken travelers. Some rigs over the side along with many rigs way out of tune or tension. Maybe someone else will contradict. There are many broken charter catamarans but no pictures of any upside down. Thousands of crews, thousands of days, thousands of puffs and storms. They bust before they flip.

Different story. Those cats are so underpowered they'd need 40 knots to flip. It is however quite easy to put the mainsheet on the power winch and gently pull the traveler out of the deck

Exactly.....

 

[Keith]

...assuming those on the strings and helm know what they are doing.

On many cruising boats the strings are cleated hard and the autopilot has the helm. That is certainly the case on mine 99% of the time. A cruising boat that requires someone on the strings and helm that also knows what they are doing needs very different management than average.

On properly set up, well sailed multihulls, all sheets are in cam cleats, and never cleated off.. ever... ever....ever.... ever...

 

[Keith]

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

...

I will get flamed here... But the sound offshore yacht should(I would say must) be able to put the tip of the mast in the water then be able self to recover to continue on unassisted. You do not have to sail that long offshore before you end up wiping out the boat including taking the windex off.

...

I can't think of a multi-hull larger than a beach cat that would meet your mandatory requirement. Which is fine as your personal requirement - just means you need to stick to mono-hulls - but probably means this requirement doesn't add much to a conversation on offshore multi-hulls.

OK, 2nd part of B/Y's statement is monohull specific. But for a multi, is most loaded position when weather hull just lifts clear of the water??? Surely GB engineer for that condition. Further heel reduces loading as the lever arm shortens. The concept of a 'fuse' is ludicrous, as is sails breaking on cue. Rigs must take all conceivable conditions in stride without incident. The risk of further damage to the floaty bits is too high. Farrier may deliberatelt design his 'C' foils to a max load & state that they must be partially raised at a wind limit, but a busted foil shouldnt risk the yacht sinking.

Ellen MacArthur is all of 5'2 tall yet she somehow managed to SINGLE-HAND a maxi multi around the entire planet non stop with no major equipment or seamanship issues. Multihulls do quite well at sea in almost all conditions provided the people operating them know WTF they are doing. I have spent a fair amount of time at sea on both big monohulls and big multihulls and I have no preference when it comes to safety or seaworthiness. The idea that a seaworthy yacht must be able to put the tip of the mast in the water and recover is fine for boats with so little stability that knock-downs are entirely likely and built into the design. Multihulls are just so much more stable that there should never be a time that the heel gets to the critical point assuming those on the strings and helm know what they are doing.

Just my opinion mind you./..your mileage may vary.

Yes exactly,.... please read the critical red part.....

 

[DryArmour]

So back to the multi million dollar raft that is theoretically still out there somewhere. I think we should start a contest with the following questions:

When:

Where:

Right Side up or upside down:

I will go first-

When: March 8th

Where: 330 miles NE of Berrmuda

Right Side up or upside down: Right side up.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

...assuming those on the strings and helm know what they are doing.

On many cruising boats the strings are cleated hard and the autopilot has the helm. That is certainly the case on mine 99% of the time. A cruising boat that requires someone on the strings and helm that also knows what they are doing needs very different management than average.

On properly set up, well sailed multihulls, all sheets are in cam cleats, and never cleated off.. ever... ever....ever.... ever...

except for those too large for cam cleats

 

[dopo]

I think she sank by now.

 

[dacapo]

So back to the multi million dollar raft that is theoretically still out there somewhere. I think we should start a contest with the following questions:

When:

Where:

Right Side up or upside down:

I will go first-

When: March 8th

Where: 330 miles NE of Berrmuda

Right Side up or upside down: Right side up.

When: March 17th

Where: Ireland

Right Side Up, full of Guinness :wacko:

 

[USA190520]

april 1st

300nm off of Nova Scotia

Right side up

 

[DDW]

On properly set up, well sailed multihulls, all sheets are in cam cleats, and never cleated off.. ever... ever....ever.... ever...

I am curious about how that works when the only crew on watch is in the head taking a dump and a "70 knot wall of wind" comes along.

 

[DDW]

So back to the multi million dollar raft that is theoretically still out there somewhere. I think we should start a contest with the following questions:

When:

Where:

Right Side up or upside down:

Is there a spot in the pool for 'never found'? That's the one I took on the Alpha 42, and as of a year later I'm winning.

 

[floater]

Omega 42

 

[DryArmour]

If a NACRA 5.8 (19 ft catamaran) can go through a 110knot hurricane and be found four months later still floating (Although upside down) then I am pretty sure 55' Gunboat will still be afloat unless of course it was run over by a ship...

Nojay was a courageous guy but underestimated the wrath of mother nature. He paid with his life.

http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2236914

 

[Rasputin22]

Omega 42

I see that you did there!

 

[MR.CLEAN]

april 1st

300nm off of Nova Scotia

Right side up

Is a front page report enough to collect? If so, then:

April 1st

South head, sydney harbour

Right side up, with jury rig and random maritime bogans aboard

 

[Keith]

On properly set up, well sailed multihulls, all sheets are in cam cleats, and never cleated off.. ever... ever....ever.... ever...

I am curious about how that works when the only crew on watch is in the head taking a dump and a "70 knot wall of wind" comes along.

That crew member would be "shit out a luck....."

 

[freddycat]

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

 

[slip knot]

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

Question: do these expensive type cats come with a right side up device that automatically dumps the sheets if shroud tension gets too much? Would that prevent a capsize but not a dismantling? Do they really work? Anyone know of one actually working out in a storm?

If you ask one more time, we might give you an answer.