RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[USA190520]

Jesus Cock Swingin' Christ.

It's a privilege to learn about the details, not a right.

 

[NoStrings]

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Bullshit flag is waving. A very good friend of mine had about 15000 more flight hours than I, and managed to fly into the wrong smoke filled canyon on the way home one Friday night, killing himself and three fellow commuters. The NTSB was less than enthusiastic about his judgment on that final flight. IOW, I don't care if you have a catamaran for a penis, you can still fuck up, and the only way others can learn from your fuck ups (hopefully avoiding making the same mistake), is to conduct a post mortem of the incident. I don't give a rats ass if your friends end up looking bad. The fact is, their evac/rescue was a very close thing, nearly costing an aircrew. Sure, shit happens, but people also make mistakes...no matter how great their skills. I'd kind of like to know the decision and event sequence that led to their rescue.

As I said, the coast guard and the insurance company, I'm sure, will do plenty of investigating and after that, I'm sure it will become public. In the case you're talking about was it the NTSB or Flying Anarchy that did the investigating. I don't know anything more than you do about this so I couldn't possibly be bullshitting you. Your post just shows that you're an ass like the rest. Nothing is being hidden. You want trial by chatroom, and they're probably just not in the mood. I do know that 2 planes did bring down the World Trade Center. It wasn't a government conspiracy with bombs placed on every floor.

Hey dipshit, I haven't accused anyone of anything, so quit projecting. Tell me why it is that we on the west coast don't flip out over investigations of our fuck ups, and you hyper sensitive east coast cunts are all running for cover?

Jesus Cock Swingin' Christ.

It's a privilege to learn about the details, not a right.

Not when public assets and funding are involved.

 

[interested party]

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Bullshit flag is waving. A very good friend of mine had about 15000 more flight hours than I, and managed to fly into the wrong smoke filled canyon on the way home one Friday night, killing himself and three fellow commuters. The NTSB was less than enthusiastic about his judgment on that final flight. IOW, I don't care if you have a catamaran for a penis, you can still fuck up, and the only way others can learn from your fuck ups (hopefully avoiding making the same mistake), is to conduct a post mortem of the incident. I don't give a rats ass if your friends end up looking bad. The fact is, their evac/rescue was a very close thing, nearly costing an aircrew. Sure, shit happens, but people also make mistakes...no matter how great their skills. I'd kind of like to know the decision and event sequence that led to their rescue.

As I said, the coast guard and the insurance company, I'm sure, will do plenty of investigating and after that, I'm sure it will become public. In the case you're talking about was it the NTSB or Flying Anarchy that did the investigating. I don't know anything more than you do about this so I couldn't possibly be bullshitting you. Your post just shows that you're an ass like the rest. Nothing is being hidden. You want trial by chatroom, and they're probably just not in the mood. I do know that 2 planes did bring down the World Trade Center. It wasn't a government conspiracy with bombs placed on every floor.

Hey dipshit, I haven't accused anyone of anything, so quit projecting. Tell me why it is that we on the west coast don't flip out over investigations of our fuck ups, and you hyper sensitive east coast cunts are all running for cover?

Jesus Cock Swingin' Christ.

It's a privilege to learn about the details, not a right.

Not when public assets and funding are involved.

So contact the Coast Guard. I'm sure they'll be glad to share. You are paying their salaries.

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Their biggest mistake was leaving with the owner AND his son; at any time of the year.

No. That is the job. If the owners wants to come on the ride, the owners comes on the ride. That's the job. Its the owners boat.

No different than Ellison w Dickson or Clark (and almost his wife) w Read on Comanche in the S2H.

If the owners wants to come, you hire enough crew to get the boat there without counting the owner as crew. They clearly did that. Because that's the job.

Shit happens - and happened here. Then the job is to keep everybody safe. They did that too.

Nice job!

Don't like the job; you can always sit at home and type shit onto the internet to tell everyone how to sail a couch in a mill pond called a living room.

Kill the story Clean. Let it die.

I would have quit when Mr. Owner said we are leaving now.
As delivery skipper I have the final say. If I don't I won't go.

That is why you hire me, for my skill and experience.

If you don't want to listen to me .I won't let you kill me.

Fuck the money.

Bringing your son for his first offshore passage was a BIG indicator of lack of judgement.

That's been my rule for every gig I have ever had.
Bailed out on a stop in Bermuda enroute to Tortola one year. Boss had to meet the boat in Norfolk instead. TS Sean killed 2 off of Bermuda and 3 or 4 boats ended up on the reef. Boss was not pleased until he read the carnage reports....

I was on that boat. Good call! We would have made BDA, but without half the crap on deck including the dink, dodger, and downstairs would have been a mess too.

 

[Rail Meat]

The story was going up yesterday but was bumped by that Pineapple Cup drivel

And fuck you too. Thank you for burning up bandwidth with your inane, useless presence.

 

[MaxHeadroom]

Their biggest mistake was leaving with the owner AND his son; at any time of the year.

No. That is the job. If the owners wants to come on the ride, the owners comes on the ride. That's the job. Its the owners boat.

No different than Ellison w Dickson or Clark (and almost his wife) w Read on Comanche in the S2H.

If the owners wants to come, you hire enough crew to get the boat there without counting the owner as crew. They clearly did that. Because that's the job.

Shit happens - and happened here. Then the job is to keep everybody safe. They did that too.

Nice job!

Don't like the job; you can always sit at home and type shit onto the internet to tell everyone how to sail a couch in a mill pond called a living room.

Kill the story Clean. Let it die.

I would have quit when Mr. Owner said we are leaving now.
As delivery skipper I have the final say. If I don't I won't go.

That is why you hire me, for my skill and experience.

If you don't want to listen to me .I won't let you kill me.

Fuck the money.

Bringing your son for his first offshore passage was a BIG indicator of lack of judgement.

That's been my rule for every gig I have ever had.
Bailed out on a stop in Bermuda enroute to Tortola one year. Boss had to meet the boat in Norfolk instead. TS Sean killed 2 off of Bermuda and 3 or 4 boats ended up on the reef. Boss was not pleased until he read the carnage reports....

I was on that boat. Good call! We would have made BDA, but without half the crap on deck including the dink, dodger, and downstairs would have been a mess too.

And that would have made the bosses wife very unhappy.... <_<

 

[DryArmour]

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

I have great respect for SOMA and his experience. I always enjoy his perspective and appreciate his extensive sea time. That being said "Interested party" you clearly have little understanding of who is here in the room. There are arm chair quarterbacks for sure with little catamaran experience but then there are those of us who grew up sailing maxi multihulls going all the way back to the 1970s and through the 80, 90s and into the 2000s. I agree that the only parties that really have a real financial interest here are the owner, the manufacturer and the insurance companies. I on the other hand have an interest in why they chose to go to sea in what appear to be very challenging conditions. My gut says it was an owner that wanted to get to warmer waters sooner rather than later and a delivery skipper that weighed the weather forecast and didn't see anything over the top for a Gunboat 55.

But I also have an interest in why they lost the rig. I have an interest in why the props got wrapped. I have an interest in why a salvage operation wasn't launched on the first Sunday following the loss of the rig and the rescue. I have an interest in why they chose to get off the boat instead of trying to jury rig or manage the props and motor to safety. I have these interests not because I want to second guess anyone but rather because as a mariner that may find himself in similar conditions one day, I would like to best understand why they made the choices they made.

I am looking forward to whatever answers become available so that members of this community may become better educated as a whole.

 

[DtM]

Well put Dry.

I would like to know those things too so that hopefully I can make more informed decisions on my catamaran

 

[joneisberg]

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Bullshit flag is waving. A very good friend of mine had about 15000 more flight hours than I, and managed to fly into the wrong smoke filled canyon on the way home one Friday night, killing himself and three fellow commuters. The NTSB was less than enthusiastic about his judgment on that final flight. IOW, I don't care if you have a catamaran for a penis, you can still fuck up, and the only way others can learn from your fuck ups (hopefully avoiding making the same mistake), is to conduct a post mortem of the incident. I don't give a rats ass if your friends end up looking bad. The fact is, their evac/rescue was a very close thing, nearly costing an aircrew. Sure, shit happens, but people also make mistakes...no matter how great their skills. I'd kind of like to know the decision and event sequence that led to their rescue.

As I said, the coast guard and the insurance company, I'm sure, will do plenty of investigating and after that, I'm sure it will become public. In the case you're talking about was it the NTSB or Flying Anarchy that did the investigating. I don't know anything more than you do about this so I couldn't possibly be bullshitting you. Your post just shows that you're an ass like the rest. Nothing is being hidden. You want trial by chatroom, and they're probably just not in the mood. I do know that 2 planes did bring down the World Trade Center. It wasn't a government conspiracy with bombs placed on every floor.

Are you referring to the RULE 62 tragedy, perhaps?

Yeah, there's a classic example of a skipper being unjustly criticized, and all the "facts" eventually being made public, alright... Hell, even the amount of the settlement paid to the family of the deceased was undisclosed on that one...

 

[interested party]

No Jon, I was referring to how any normal rule question discussed on these threads gets blown way out of proportion, and by page 4 someone is saying that the boat should be "protested under rule 69".

 

[Rantifarian]

Well put Dry.

I would like to know those things too so that hopefully I can make more informed decisions on my catamaran

+1Not all of us are just rubbernecking

 

[jzk]

So what do the "windows" have to do with abandoning Rainmaker? The bridge deck is almost an open deck design with only isenglass aft. The "windows" amount to a very nice dodger. Would you abandon because your dodger blew out?

 

[spike]

So what do the "windows" have to do with abandoning Rainmaker? The bridge deck is almost an open deck design with only isenglass aft. The "windows" amount to a very nice dodger. Would you abandon because your dodger blew out?

Think of the windows as cabin top, not dodger. The ask the same question.

 

[jzk]

You could think that, but you would be wrong. There is nothing aft but isenglass. It is really one nice cockpit enclosure, not a cabin.

So what do the "windows" have to do with abandoning Rainmaker? The bridge deck is almost an open deck design with only isenglass aft. The "windows" amount to a very nice dodger. Would you abandon because your dodger blew out?

Think of the windows as cabin top, not dodger. The ask the same question.

 

[Edith Bicknell]

So what do the "skylights s" have to do with abandoning Rainmaker? The bridge deck is almost an open deck design with only isenglass aft. The "skylights" amount to a very nice dodger. Would you abandon because your dodger blew out?

Think of the windows as cabin top, not dodger. The ask the same question.

Like this?

 

[AYACHT]

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Does SOMA understand that in the winter months in this area of the The Atlantic and north you better have a minimum of 3 days of good weather when you leave? I have sailed these waters for 40 years and couldn't tell you how many times! I have even pitch poled a mono-hull 300 miles off this same coast in late December. ( No Coastguard assistance). We lost the mast and got back to NC. 6 days later. Something smells fishy why they left when they did.

 

[joneisberg]

So what do the "windows" have to do with abandoning Rainmaker? The bridge deck is almost an open deck design with only isenglass aft. The "windows" amount to a very nice dodger. Would you abandon because your dodger blew out?

Well, in this instance, that might have been a bit more "disruptive" than the owner was bargaining for... First time he'd ever been 200 miles offshore, never seen conditions like that before, his carbon fiber world had just come crashing down on top of him - that all was a far cry from those nice videos shot on summer days sailing around NY harbor, and set to hip music...

With his world suddenly opened to the elements, busted glass all around, I can easily imagine something like that being the final straw for a panicked owner, and one accustomed to getting pretty much anything he wants by simply picking up his (sat)phone...

 

[kent_island_sailor]

You are wrong. I do the airplane version of that job as well as the boat job.

The BIGGEST part of the job is saying NO and walking away. I learend that the hard way too. When I was young I liked a challenge.

Their biggest mistake was leaving with the owner AND his son; at any time of the year.

No. That is the job. If the owners wants to come on the ride, the owners comes on the ride. That's the job. Its the owners boat.

No different than Ellison w Dickson or Clark (and almost his wife) w Read on Comanche in the S2H.

If the owners wants to come, you hire enough crew to get the boat there without counting the owner as crew. They clearly did that. Because that's the job.

Shit happens - and happened here. Then the job is to keep everybody safe. They did that too.

Nice job!

Don't like the job; you can always sit at home and type shit onto the internet to tell everyone how to sail a couch in a mill pond called a living room.

Kill the story Clean. Let it die.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I think we just need to understand that old guys that grew up sailing on the East Coast know old stuff. Modern delivery skippers in disruptive boats can do things we cannot and they have no problem with January storms

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Does SOMA understand that in the winter months in this area of the The Atlantic and north you better have a minimum of 3 days of good weather when you leave? I have sailed these waters for 40 years and couldn't tell you how many times! I have even pitch poled a mono-hull 300 miles off this same coast in late December. ( No Coastguard assistance). We lost the mast and got back to NC. 6 days later. Something smells fishy why they left when they did.

 

[joneisberg]

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Does SOMA understand that in the winter months in this area of the The Atlantic and north you better have a minimum of 3 days of good weather when you leave? I have sailed these waters for 40 years and couldn't tell you how many times! I have even pitch poled a mono-hull 300 miles off this same coast in late December. ( No Coastguard assistance). We lost the mast and got back to NC. 6 days later. Something smells fishy why they left when they did.

Even a 3 day window is generally wishful thinking, 48 hours is often the most you can hope for in terms of a reliable forecast... Cue the mockery of invoking the 'wisdom' of an old sea dog like Don Street ;-)

Sailors heading south to Bermuda in November should stop asking for weather windows, and weather routers should stop providing them: These windows don’t exist except for 90-foot sailing rocket ships that can reach Bermuda in three days. U.S. East Coast weather becomes so unstable in November that forecasts are good only up to 48 to 60 hours.

http://www.cruisingworld.com/how/sailing-south-forget-bermuda

Only time I've ever sailed in 'Thunder Snow', was while rounding Hatteras one night in late January... Good thing Jim Cantore wasn't aboard, we'd have had to lash him to the mast, for sure...

We'd left the Chesapeake Entrance with a very favorable and benign forecast, looking like a motorsail in light airs most of the way to Charleston... But that fucking place makes its own weather, it's a micro climate out there all its own...