RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[kent_island_sailor]

I still recall getting a forecast at dinner on the SSB for 15-20 and then lashing a sail down at midnight in 50+ with so much green water landing on me I just about needed scuba gear to do the job and that was in the freaking SUMMER.

 

[Edith Bicknell]

I think we just need to understand that old guys that grew up sailing on the East Coast know old stuff. Modern delivery skippers in disruptive boats can do things we cannot and they have no problem with January storms

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Does SOMA understand that in the winter months in this area of the The Atlantic and north you better have a minimum of 3 days of good weather when you leave? I have sailed these waters for 40 years and couldn't tell you how many times! I have even pitch poled a mono-hull 300 miles off this same coast in late December. ( No Coastguard assistance). We lost the mast and got back to NC. 6 days later. Something smells fishy why they left when they did.

NO, YOU are WRONG!

We have already been told by someone who wasnt on board that the top experienced 28 yr old GB skipper with disruptive technology and a multi millionaire onboard knows more than old experienced people. Have you been listening? Keep up with the group! People living in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

(or take them offshore in the winter)

 

[jwaldron]

I think we just need to understand that old guys that grew up sailing on the East Coast know old stuff. Modern delivery skippers in disruptive boats can do things we cannot and they have no problem with January storms

SOMA knows what he's talking about and he has more catamaran miles than all the rest of you combined. He knows all of the people involved and I'm sure he knows all of the facts. The only asshats here are all of the Monday morning quarterbacks, conspiracy theorists, people who NEED the facts, and the rest of the turds that sit at their computers thinking they know more than people who have thousands of miles on the water. I'm almost shocked that nobody has brough up rule 69 yet. Its very easy to sit in your living room and say how you would have handled it. They were there - you weren't. Tough shit. And , no. You don't have a right to know. The interested parties do. You don't. I'm sure the coast guard has all of the facts and I'm sure the insurance company has all of the facts. The rest of you can go investigate the J80s that lost their keels, the Farallones Islands accident, the Ebay boat, and the Hinkley on the streets of Boston.

Does SOMA understand that in the winter months in this area of the The Atlantic and north you better have a minimum of 3 days of good weather when you leave? I have sailed these waters for 40 years and couldn't tell you how many times! I have even pitch poled a mono-hull 300 miles off this same coast in late December. ( No Coastguard assistance). We lost the mast and got back to NC. 6 days later. Something smells fishy why they left when they did.

NO, YOU are WRONG!

We have already been told by someone who wasnt on board that the top experienced 28 yr old GB skipper with disruptive technology and a multi millionaire onboard knows more than old experienced people. Have you been listening? Keep up with the group! People living in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

(or take them offshore in the winter)

Ever heard of irony?

I think subtile irony is lost on quite a few around here. It appears that Kent ... stongly implied, sotto voce, "Modern delivery skippers in disruptive boats can do things we cannot and they have no problem with January storms" ... until they do have problems. Like the ones being discussed.

Pay closer attention.

 

[Wess]

Their biggest mistake was leaving with the owner AND his son; at any time of the year.

No. That is the job. If the owners wants to come on the ride, the owners comes on the ride. That's the job. Its the owners boat.

No different than Ellison w Dickson or Clark (and almost his wife) w Read on Comanche in the S2H.

If the owners wants to come, you hire enough crew to get the boat there without counting the owner as crew. They clearly did that. Because that's the job.

Shit happens - and happened here. Then the job is to keep everybody safe. They did that too.

Nice job!

Don't like the job; you can always sit at home and type shit onto the internet to tell everyone how to sail a couch in a mill pond called a living room.

Kill the story Clean. Let it die.

I would have quit when Mr. Owner said we are leaving now.
As delivery skipper I have the final say. If I don't I won't go.

That is why you hire me, for my skill and experience.

If you don't want to listen to me .I won't let you kill me.

Fuck the money.

Bringing your son for his first offshore passage was a BIG indicator of lack of judgement.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Wess - you forgot to actually post something

 

[Wess]

Ugh, can't get phone to work. Rope, I believe both the owner and son had some offshore experience. But don't see it as issue. Not saying it's such but I don't care if they are potted plants so long as there is adequate experienced crew. And there was.

So then you ate back to the forecast. It's not ideal but there is no ideal forecast this time year.

You would never leave waiting for one.

Obviously something failed in the rig in conditions well beyond forecast but still the rig should not have failed. But it did. At that point you play the hand out as best you can.

I think many experienced multihull folks would have sailed that boat given that forecast and destination and outs. I don't know how many would have wanted to stay on it stranded given what was coming and the likely condition.

 

[ropetrick]

I do monos not multis. Maybe you can ride the back of the low and stay ahead of the real shit. I would not try that at this time of the year.

What I have read here and on the multi forum is that owner and son had little to no off shore cred. I believe that was a big issue.

I sense panic in the attempt to board a freighter and question if that was the skippers idea. I'll bet the boss wanted off.

Cohen has enough money to buy silence and expect that the truth will never be known.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Exactly

Ugh, can't get phone to work. Rope, I believe both the owner and son had some offshore experience. But don't see it as issue. Not saying it's such but I don't care if they are potted plants so long as there is adequate experienced crew. And there was.

So then you ate back to the forecast. It's not ideal but there is no ideal forecast this time year.
You would never leave waiting for one.

Obviously something failed in the rig in conditions well beyond forecast but still the rig should not have failed. But it did. At that point you play the hand out as best you can.

I think many experienced multihull folks would have sailed that boat given that forecast and destination and outs. I don't know how many would have wanted to stay on it stranded given what was coming and the likely condition.

 

[Boo-Yah]

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a sea anchor if they had the materials to make one?

 

[Boo-Yah]

I do monos not multis. Maybe you can ride the back of the low and stay ahead of the real shit. I would not try that at this time of the year.

What I have read here and on the multi forum is that owner and son had little to no off shore cred. I believe that was a big issue.

I sense panic in the attempt to board a freighter and question if that was the skippers idea. I'll bet the boss wanted off.

Cohen has enough money to buy silence and expect that the truth will never be known.

I will be willing they all wanted off, we would all want off... The question is who would be the first to admit it...

"I'll bet the boss wanted off."

To not want "off" would be reckless foolishness. Maybe just as questionable as leaving the dock in the first place.

 

[fastyacht]

What happened to the ICW? Did somebody close it? Or is it the lowhanging bridges that are just too much of a PITA?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

The mast was too tall for it.

What happened to the ICW? Did somebody close it? Or is it the lowhanging bridges that are just too much of a PITA?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

A drogue is towed astern to slow the boat down.

A sea anchor is deployed off the bow to "anchor" the boat head to wind. They were VERY underequiped for the North Atlantic if they did not have both and a sea anchor would have been just the thing to ride somewhat comfortably and get their mess squared away. Drogues are pretty easy to make from materials onhand, but a sea anchor is not unless you just happen to have a huge parachute sitting around.

As for wanting off, the non-fun job of the skipper is to explain that trying to climb on a freighter is hugely dangerous and it is much safer to just stay put. The 28 year old telling the billionaire owner to STFU and HTFU apparently went about as well as you would guess

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a drogue if they had the materials to make one?

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a drogue if they had the materials to make one?

Brochure says you can remove the glass windows and they have velcro fittings to fashion into a drouge. Also reduces windage.

It's disruptive and unconventional wisdom but the computer model says it will work better than hanging oil bags over the side.

 

[Boo-Yah]

A drogue is towed astern to slow the boat down.

A sea anchor is deployed off the bow to "anchor" the boat head to wind. They were VERY underequiped for the North Atlantic if they did not have both and a sea anchor would have been just the thing to ride somewhat comfortably and get their mess squared away. Drogues are pretty easy to make from materials onhand, but a sea anchor is not unless you just happen to have a huge parachute sitting around.

As for wanting off, the non-fun job of the skipper is to explain that trying to climb on a freighter is hugely dangerous and it is much safer to just stay put. The 28 year old telling the billionaire owner to STFU and HTFU apparently went about as well as you would guess

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a drogue if they had the materials to make one?

"sea anchor would have been just the thing to ride somewhat comfortably and get their mess squared away"

So will a big Gunboat like multi hang safely into a massive sea? What do you secure it to?

The real question is what would the motions and conditions be like on or inside the boat for the non professional sailing athlete?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Normally the sea anchor would use the same fittings as the "land" anchor.

As for motion, my experience with big cats in rough weahter is limited. IMHO the jerky quick motion can be quite annoying and I have a picture of myself someplace getting launched about 3 feet off the bow tramp when we smacked a real big wave. For some reason I think the Condor 40 trimarans don't bang around as much, but it has been ages since I sailed one.

 

[DDW]

The mast was too tall for it.

What happened to the ICW? Did somebody close it? Or is it the lowhanging bridges that are just too much of a PITA?

Would not have been, after passing under the first one....

 

[ropetrick]

The mast was too tall for it.

What happened to the ICW? Did somebody close it? Or is it the lowhanging bridges that are just too much of a PITA?

Would not have been, after passing under the first one....

They were gonna' lose it anyway.

 

[Boo-Yah]

What happened to the ICW? Did somebody close it? Or is it the lowhanging bridges that are just too much of a PITA?

Route 1: Sail in September from Newport, Rhode Island, to Bermuda, leave the boat in Bermuda, then return there in December to sail to St. Thomas.

Route 2: Depart in November from Little Creek, Virginia, sail south-southeast until the easterlies fill in, typically somewhere near 65 west, then sail south to St. Thomas.

Route 3: Depart in November from Beaufort or Morehead City, North Carolina, sail south-southeast until the easterlies fill in, then sail south to St. Thomas.

Route 4: Depart in November, hugging the coast to Charleston, South Carolina, then sail inside the Gulf Stream to approximately Jacksonville, Florida. Time your departure from Jacksonville so you leave a day or two ahead of a forecast norther. Sail east until the norther dies, then hard on port tack to a landfall in the islands.

There there would be The Route of The Disruptive Sailor.... We are waiting for the wisdom and long promised details on that on from Mr. Clean... AWOL since yesterday AM?

 

[joneisberg]

Normally the sea anchor would use the same fittings as the "land" anchor.

As for motion, my experience with big cats in rough weahter is limited. IMHO the jerky quick motion can be quite annoying and I have a picture of myself someplace getting launched about 3 feet off the bow tramp when we smacked a real big wave. For some reason I think the Condor 40 trimarans don't bang around as much, but it has been ages since I sailed one.

Right from the start, I've wondered what a sea anchor bridle would have been fixed to on RAINMAKER... Really hard to find detailed pics of the bow cleats on the 55, but as best I can tell, they appear to be this style of sexy folders like these from Nomen:

I ran a Trintella 50 for years that had these things... Stupidest fucking cleats I have ever used... could be just me, but I don't believe things like 'hinges', or 'moving parts', are a desirable feature in a mooring cleat ;-) And, despite their sleek appearance, the edges and corners of some of the bearing surfaces were surprisingly sharp, and had the potential for inducing considerable chafe... Plus, they were so weirdly shaped, it really was difficult to get a tight, secure locking hitch on one...

If there had ever been a salvage attempt made on RAINMAKER, and those cleats (assuming that is indeed what serves as the bow cleats on those boats, I could be mistaken) served as the sole attachment point for the towing bridle, I'd bet they would be gone, or broken, in very short order... Otherwise, you'd normally use them to serve more like a fairlead, taking the bridle back to a strong point like cockpit winches, but of course there are no such things on a Gunboat 55...