RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[billy backstay]

Still no story on the front page???

 

[kent_island_sailor]

The sailing press used to never bite any hands at all. SA will bite hands that don't feed it

Still no story on the front page???

Yer PJ hasn't finished his edit yet.

 

[mad]

In case you guys haven't noticed, there is a parallel thread over on Multihull Anarchy. No real news there either except a cryptic post from Peter Johnstone yesterday with some sorta half-information. Still no detailedl post or days-in-editing interview. Instead we get a horse on a boat and a regurgitated story about ISAF on the front page to distract us.

What's your personal interest in the Gunboat loss?

In other words, what harm are you suffering from not receiving your free information now, rather than later?

When it comes to the intersection of safety and boat design choices, don sailors have a right to know (especially when its our tax dollars that pay for the rescue).

Boatbuilders pay $$ for advertising. Is there media bias against investigating?

GB no doubt makes fantastic boats, but if lessons learned about leaking engine hatches, difficulties keeping water in an indoor/outdoor salon setup from leaking down, problems with glass panels that nobody anticipated...

If Rainmaker's lessons learned do not get out, other sailors will be put into harms way. Is that enough suffering for you?

First of all, tits or fuck off. If you are a sock, double fuck off. Next, Clean never said the report wouldn't be published, he said it will be published when it is ready and given, as he pointed out, it is free why are you so impatient? If you don't want to wait, call your contacts, do a little leg work and let us know what you get. I think it is a little to early for pitchforks, torches and conspiracy theories.

I don't know who Mr Clean is but if he was the captain or anyone on Rainmaker, then yes great we can all wait and thanks for saying the narrative is coming. But as I did (and do) not know who Mr Clean is, all I can do is call a spade a spade and say that it sure feels like the GB machine doesn't want the details to come out and is trying to save their marketing image.

Either way the f*&^ off comment is lame, maybe you should be banned

You know very little about this place.

Now go fuck ya'self you whiny shit sucking cunt.

 

[Boo-Yah]

Normally the sea anchor would use the same fittings as the "land" anchor.

As for motion, my experience with big cats in rough weahter is limited. IMHO the jerky quick motion can be quite annoying and I have a picture of myself someplace getting launched about 3 feet off the bow tramp when we smacked a real big wave. For some reason I think the Condor 40 trimarans don't bang around as much, but it has been ages since I sailed one.

Right from the start, I've wondered what a sea anchor bridle would have been fixed to on RAINMAKER... Really hard to find detailed pics of the bow cleats on the 55, but as best I can tell, they appear to be this style of sexy folders like these from Nomen:

I ran a Trintella 50 for years that had these things... Stupidest fucking cleats I have ever used... could be just me, but I don't believe things like 'hinges', or 'moving parts', are a desirable feature in a mooring cleat ;-) And, despite their sleek appearance, the edges and corners of some of the bearing surfaces were surprisingly sharp, and had the potential for inducing considerable chafe... Plus, they were so weirdly shaped, it really was difficult to get a tight, secure locking hitch on one...

If there had ever been a salvage attempt made on RAINMAKER, and those cleats (assuming that is indeed what serves as the bow cleats on those boats, I could be mistaken) served as the sole attachment point for the towing bridle, I'd bet they would be gone, or broken, in very short order... Otherwise, you'd normally use them to serve more like a fairlead, taking the bridle back to a strong point like cockpit winches, but of course there are no such things on a Gunboat 55...

 

[Bostonbowman]

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a sea anchor if they had the materials to make one?

Another real question..... call me old school, but where are all the handholds that any good offshore boat should have? This picture makes the cockpit area seem more suited to shuffleboard than riding out serious swells.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

And yet ANOTHER real question:

If that "glass" is like the glass in my dodger I ran roll up and put away, that would be one thing. If that is actual window glass, plexi, or lexan, NFW woudl I be anyplace near it in the kind of waves I have had to deal with in the Gulf Stream

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a sea anchor if they had the materials to make one?

Another real question..... call me old school, but where are all the handholds that any good offshore boat should have? This picture makes the cockpit area seem more suited to shuffleboard than riding out serious swells.

You dont need handholds when you can use disruptive technology to simply outrun the bad weather

 

[TwoLegged]

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a sea anchor if they had the materials to make one?

Another real question..... call me old school, but where are all the handholds that any good offshore boat should have? This picture makes the cockpit area seem more suited to shuffleboard than riding out serious swells.

You dont need handholds when you can use disruptive technology to simply outrun the bad weather

I'll see your disruptive technology ... and raise you a disruptive storm

 

[Bostonbowman]

Real Question... I have plenty of offshore racing miles and a few bad shorthanded IOR big boat offshore delivery miles. I have no miles offshore without a rig standing up in the boat.

No rig, no engine maneuverability, seas like cliffs, gonna get dark, a very stiff and I expect noisy hull, the washing machine some talk about may be an understatement. With the right combination of sea state load and any number of potential errors in the design build a big important part could break off or collapse.

If you were the 28 year old in command where would you position everyone for the duration? What is the potential incline and motion of a large multihull without steerage in a real storm. Would it just safely hang head to wind on a sea anchor if they had the materials to make one?

Another real question..... call me old school, but where are all the handholds that any good offshore boat should have? This picture makes the cockpit area seem more suited to shuffleboard than riding out serious swells.

You dont need handholds when you can use disruptive technology to simply outrun the bad weather

I need hand holds, I have shitty balance in the best of conditions. Guess that is why I own a Passport 40 and not a Gunboat (that and a couple million other reasons).

 

[spike]

Another real question. After your rig has fallen down and you have saved your own sorry ass, sought shelter under motor with the longeron bouncing around, can one still use the anchor shipped under the longeron, without risk of further damage ( ie pulling said longeron off boat and ending up with a tangled mess) or does one need to find an end tie marina berth before taking a nap?

Remembering we are probably anchoring in shitty conditions in a less than perfect anchorage.

Yes...the anchor system is obviously "compromised".

I wonder if the way to temporarily support the longeron is to take a line from one of the stay (martingale) padeyes midway down the fwd inner hull, underneath the longeron, and up to the opposing hulls bow cleat; repeat on opposite hull. At least this way the longeron is basketed somewhat and might allow some form of anchoring

 

[Keith]

A sea anchor set off the bows of a cat, has a bridle, (The same way you would set a ground anchor on a cat)

On my cat, I would run large snatch blocks off the bow cleats, the bridle lines would run through the snatch blocks, down the side decks to the large spinnaker turning block in the back on each side, and then onto the winch bench, across the back of the cockpit. The main line off the sea anchor would be shackled to the bridle lines, and all pins wired. This setup allows you to adjust the bridle length overall, or the angle you take the seas off the bows. I usually laid bows straight into the weather. Dagger boards up.

Once a sea anchor is set properly, its a very settled ride. All lines are nylon, so its a giant elastic your hanging onto, with very little shock loading.

I used paratech.

http://www.seaanchor.com/pdf/sea_anchor_instructions.pdf

 

[jewingiv]

A sea anchor set off the bows of a cat, has a bridle, (The same way you would set a ground anchor on a cat)

On my cat, I would run large snatch blocks off the bow cleats, the bridle lines would run through the snatch blocks, down the side decks to the large spinnaker turning block in the back on each side, and then onto the winch bench, across the back of the cockpit. The main line off the sea anchor would be shackled to the bridle lines, and all pins wired. This setup allows you to adjust the bridle length overall, or the angle you take the seas off the bows. I usually laid bows straight into the weather. Dagger boards up.

Once a sea anchor is set properly, its a very settled ride. All lines are nylon, so its a giant elastic your hanging onto, with very little shock loading.

I used paratech.

http://www.seaanchor.com/pdf/sea_anchor_instructions.pdf

Good stuff. Now with the rig down, the longeron bouncing up and down, and the tramp unusable as a working surface, how would that change your equation? It seems like the bow cleats would unsafe to approach, but could one run the sea anchor from cleats farther aft / on the main crossbeam?

 

[Keith]

A sea anchor set off the bows of a cat, has a bridle, (The same way you would set a ground anchor on a cat)

On my cat, I would run large snatch blocks off the bow cleats, the bridle lines would run through the snatch blocks, down the side decks to the large spinnaker turning block in the back on each side, and then onto the winch bench, across the back of the cockpit. The main line off the sea anchor would be shackled to the bridle lines, and all pins wired. This setup allows you to adjust the bridle length overall, or the angle you take the seas off the bows. I usually laid bows straight into the weather. Dagger boards up.

Once a sea anchor is set properly, its a very settled ride. All lines are nylon, so its a giant elastic your hanging onto, with very little shock loading.

I used paratech.

http://www.seaanchor.com/pdf/sea_anchor_instructions.pdf

Good stuff. Now with the rig down, the longeron bouncing up and down, and the tramp unusable as a working surface, how would that change your equation? It seems like the bow cleats would unsafe to approach, but could one run the sea anchor from cleats farther aft / on the main crossbeam?

OK, that's a whole different animal. You really want the bridle, off the bows, out front of everything, if possible. You may have trouble back on the beam as the bridle may chaff on the hulls forward.

You would have allot of gear, you would need to clear or stabilize before you could do much of anything, out front.

 

[joneisberg]

And yet ANOTHER real question:

If that "glass" is like the glass in my dodger I ran roll up and put away, that would be one thing. If that is actual window glass, plexi, or lexan, NFW woudl I be anyplace near it in the kind of waves I have had to deal with in the Gulf Stream

It's a special 'High Latitude Glass', I believe...

My copy of CRUISING WORLD arrived today, and for the first time, I actually read the text of the ad for the 55 on the inside cover spread... This is the first line of the copy:

"The GUNBOAT 55's panoramic salon opens for summer living and fully encloses for exploring high latitudes."

 

[phillysailor]

I think Clean felt the hate spewing/accusations had reached intolerable levels on this thread. Pulling his family into things was the final straw. Hope the article eventually gets published, but at this point he may say sayonara to this toxic topic.

He deserves an apology, and we need to tone it down. Anarchy doesn't extend to wives or kids. Girlfriends & sisters tits are different.

 

[TimFordi550#87]

I think many experienced multihull folks would have sailed that boat given that forecast and destination and outs.

Really? Wow, I am quite surprised to hear you say (write) that, Wess.

That forecast was no mystery, it had been on the ECMWF for about 8 days. I wouldn't have gone out into that, especially off Hatteras, in a Hinckley 52.

Whoever mentioned "micro-climate" was spot-on, that part of the ocean is spooky-weird.

 

[Monkey]

I think Clean felt the hate spewing/accusations had reached intolerable levels on this thread. Pulling his family into things was the final straw. Hope the article eventually gets published, but at this point he may say sayonara to this toxic topic.

He deserves an apology, and we need to tone it down. Anarchy doesn't extend to wives or kids. Girlfriends & sisters tits are different.

While I whole heartedly agree that attacking Mer would be bullshit, I think the desperate to be offended crowd went a bit overboard. It was a picture of a fat lady, and believe it or not, a near full term pregnant woman is a bit round! I've met both Alan and Mer in person, and a sense of humor is definately not lacking. My guess is that probably got a chuckle.
I highly doubt he's "avoiding" the thread. Even when we're all heaping shit on him, he tends to stick around and argue (Ill give him credit for that). My guess is he's involved with one of the 65 billion options in life besides the Internet for the moment.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Mer was not in the thread, so I say no fair picking on her.

 

[PeterHuston]

I think Clean felt the hate spewing/accusations had reached intolerable levels on this thread. Pulling his family into things was the final straw. Hope the article eventually gets published, but at this point he may say sayonara to this toxic topic.

He deserves an apology, and we need to tone it down. Anarchy doesn't extend to wives or kids. Girlfriends & sisters tits are different.

I'd bet that Pro From Dover is not around much more. The Ed has basically a zero tolerance policy for messing with people's families.

 

[Wess]

I think many experienced multihull folks would have sailed that boat given that forecast and destination and outs.

Really? Wow, I am quite surprised to hear you say (write) that, Wess.

That forecast was no mystery, it had been on the ECMWF for about 8 days. I wouldn't have gone out into that, especially off Hatteras, in a Hinckley 52.

Whoever mentioned "micro-climate" was spot-on, that part of the ocean is spooky-weird.