RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[NEbuDDy]

Glad everyone is safely on the ground. We'll get the full story in the morning.

+1 BTW the Coasties don't look too pissed off, you don't suppose they actualy 'live' for this stuff? When you go fishing do you enjoy it less if the fish ain't too bright??Jus' sayin'

Looks like operator error - or at least "an act of god" for the dismasting.

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Knowing the pro captain quite well, I am quite positive he was losing his shit at the prospect of abandoning his boat, and I have zero doubt he will be first aboard when they get out there to salvage. Go get 'em CB.

F ing A

 

[DDW]

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Do we know there was an EPRIB involved? Surely Rainmaker had sat phones and satellite trackers (Yellow Brick, InReach, etc) on board? So they could have communicated distress without asking for rescue (had they not wanted rescue)? It would be nice to get a detailed narrative, like there was of the Alpha 42 - even if everyone picks it to bits (as we did there). A lot can be learned without having to go through it.

 

[DryArmour]

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Do we know there was an EPRIB involved? Surely Rainmaker had sat phones and satellite trackers (Yellow Brick, InReach, etc) on board? So they could have communicated distress without asking for rescue (had they not wanted rescue)? It would be nice to get a detailed narrative, like there was of the Alpha 42 - even if everyone picks it to bits (as we did there). A lot can be learned without having to go through it.

+1. All "accidents" have lessons to teach...Worth picking it apart even if feelings get hurt.

 

[Rasputin22]

Better days...

 

[TimFordi550#87]

^^ a hovering C-130??

I don't think C130s can hover mate. They fly around in large slow circles I think.

Thanks, i knew that, was being sarcastic.

the IR images seem very stationary and close range, not what you would expect from a passing c-130 at stall +1 speed.

Taking a second, and third look, must've been the 130. With a stall speed of 115, flying into 30kn headwind, SOG 85 kn, and shot from a distance with a long lens. Excellent IS, maybe a gyro mount.

Notice the slight left to right motion of the background, especially the last IR sequence.

Sorry for the digression, carry on.

 

[DA-WOODY]

I will be interested to hear what service they used for routing and whether they left port knowing what they were in for. As with all rescues, there are lessons to be learned by all of us. Let's try and make something positive out of their experience.

 

[Rasputin22]

Maybe being named Boat of the Year by Sailing World is the jinx. The Gunboat 55 for 2015 and the Chris White MastFoil in 2014!? There have been a couple of MastFoil dismastings since. The ill-fated Alpha 42 met its end in very similar conditions in the same patch of ocean last year and it was a nominee for BOTY. Must be the Kiss of Death for a new cat design.

This year’s BOTY fleet of cats is one of the strongest in years, with new boats from Gunboat (including the 55, also built on the East Coast, in North Carolina); a pair of new Lagoons (the 39 and 52); a fresh Chris White design constructed in Chile by Alwoplast (the Atlantic 47, with White’s innovative “mast foil” rig); and a full-size Nautitech (the 562). So the Alpha 42 will certainly find stiff competition. Will the boat be a contender?

Of the three, I think I would take my chances with the G55. Nice detailing. I wasn't crazy about the kayak like coaming on the hull fwd, reminded me of the old Windrider roto-molded trimaran but it is growing on me now. This video looks like the previous passage before the Hatteras disaster. Hope they had the GoPro's running, might show some clues on how the rig failed.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/111797937

 

[Crash]

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Do we know there was an EPRIB involved? Surely Rainmaker had sat phones and satellite trackers (Yellow Brick, InReach, etc) on board? So they could have communicated distress without asking for rescue (had they not wanted rescue)? It would be nice to get a detailed narrative, like there was of the Alpha 42 - even if everyone picks it to bits (as we did there). A lot can be learned without having to go through it.

Lets give the Coast Guard some credit here...what they probably more likely say is "...with the deteriorating forecast, we may not be able to get to you later..." If they made it back with less fuel then you'd like to have (i.e. a low fuel light illuminated, or about to illuminate), then going back later into worse wx (higher winds, longer time to rescue/hoist due to wx) then you might not be able to go, cause there's no way to get back...

Lets also for now give the Skipper some benefit of the doubt that once told that, and having had things go badly of late, that the prudent thing to ensure the safety of the crew is to request the rescue while the Coast Guard says they can come, and not hope that they can still make it later if things continue to go south.

Still wonder why they left in the fist place, but that's a different argument than the "do we get off now or not" discussion....

 

[Diarmuid]

Isn't there a clause in most marine insurance policies that denies claims payment if the boat is in a specified hurricane zone during a specified season? Like, "If you park your boat in the Antilles during August and a storm sinks it, don't come crying to us?" Why is there apparently no such clause for (e.g.) the North Atlantic in January? The first two reactions from the owners/GB were: Whew, everyone is safe; and whew, the boat is fully insured. Maybe take away the latter and there'd be less anxiety over the former? It's like some nauseating remake of Synge's Riders to the Sea:

Maurya: If it wasn't rising itself, that wind was raising the sea, and there was a star up against the moon, and it rising in the night. If it was a hundred horses, or a thousand horses you had itself, what is the price of a thousand horses against a son, where there is one son only?

Bartley: (cheerful) It's okay, mum -- I have insurance!

 

[SloopJonB]

That was my though - I've never see that part of the Atlantic coast but Hatteras is one of the most famous shipping graveyards in the world - WTF were they doing there in the dead of winter?

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Lets give the Coast Guard some credit here...what they probably more likely say is "...with the deteriorating forecast, we may not be able to get to you later..." If they made it back with less fuel then you'd like to have (i.e. a low fuel light illuminated, or about to illuminate), then going back later into worse wx (higher winds, longer time to rescue/hoist due to wx) then you might not be able to go, cause there's no way to get back...

Lets also for now give the Skipper some benefit of the doubt that once told that, and having had things go badly of late, that the prudent thing to ensure the safety of the crew is to request the rescue while the Coast Guard says they can come, and not hope that they can still make it later if things continue to go south.

Still wonder why they left in the fist place, but that's a different argument than the "do we get off now or not" discussion....

This is a bit of a pet subject for me, I have researched this a lot over the years and talked to dozens of rescuees.

The CG is trained to push you as hard as they can to get off the boat, once they are there. I have never seen a report where they bodily removed someone, but they pressure crew very, very strongly to abandon, and only yacht captains who absolutely know their rights (plus a couple of crazy people) have successfully refused.

It's certainly possible that Chris figured it would be safer to abandon and then revisit after the brunt of the system is finished with her mayhem, or that the owner or the insurer made the call and made it absolute. Having a good signal from the boat, and her close (ish) proximity to Hatteras probably made that decision a lot easier.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Do we know there was an EPRIB involved?

Yes, we do.

 

[Innocent Bystander]

That was my though - I've never see that part of the Atlantic coast but Hatteras is one of the most famous shipping graveyards in the world - WTF were they doing there in the dead of winter?

Add in the forecast. We have a series of rapidly moving fronts moving through the Mid Atlantic coast at the moment. Anyone with an eye on the weather should have not been surprised at the conditions.

 

[hhn92]

For the C-130 stall comment: my dad flew them (flight engineer) and they are grossly overpowered. They are the only cargo plane (to my knowledge) that has a shaker stick, other than a jet fighter. When doing stall tests on check rides according to dad they had to slow down so far that it was only 'hanging' on the props. One blip of the throttles and it comes right out. Basically use the same tactic here as the gunships use to orbit over a target, as noted, large circles at slow speed.

Many wild stories of his days in the 60's, taking-off in a dry rice paddie and not having enough air-speed to lift-off, jumping the highway and then back down in the next field until they had the speed, at wartime max load and losing an engine on take-off at Pope AFB (next to Ft. Bragg), having to dump fuel at low altitude (way below minimums) right over the barracks. Oh yeah, they did not have the full runway either as there were a hundred C-130's lined-up and they were one of the first elements to taxi.

Great plane that has been hard to replace.

 

[Suijin]

I would assume that they were taking the boat down for the Miami show, given it won boat of the year, and that explains some pressure to get the show on the road. I'm not entirely sure why you'd be 200 nm out if that were your destination, however.

 

[Guvacine]

Combination of too much money, and absence of sailing skills and knowledgle about the ocean. Adds to the urgency for a "born again" SA absent all of the rich assholes. There is by definition nothing "anarchy" about sailing (?) boats that cost 100s of 1000s of dollars (should stick with golf).

 

[jwaldron]

Lets give the Coast Guard some credit here...what they probably more likely say is "...with the deteriorating forecast, we may not be able to get to you later..." If they made it back with less fuel then you'd like to have (i.e. a low fuel light illuminated, or about to illuminate), then going back later into worse wx (higher winds, longer time to rescue/hoist due to wx) then you might not be able to go, cause there's no way to get back...

Lets also for now give the Skipper some benefit of the doubt that once told that, and having had things go badly of late, that the prudent thing to ensure the safety of the crew is to request the rescue while the Coast Guard says they can come, and not hope that they can still make it later if things continue to go south.

Still wonder why they left in the fist place, but that's a different argument than the "do we get off now or not" discussion....

This is a bit of a pet subject for me, I have researched this a lot over the years and talked to dozens of rescuees.

The CG is trained to push you as hard as they can to get off the boat, once they are there. I have never seen a report where they bodily removed someone, but they pressure crew very, very strongly to abandon, and only yacht captains who absolutely know their rights (plus a couple of crazy people) have successfully refused.

It's certainly possible that Chris figured it would be safer to abandon and then revisit after the brunt of the system is finished with her mayhem, or that the owner or the insurer made the call and made it absolute. Having a good signal from the boat, and her close (ish) proximity to Hatteras probably made that decision a lot easier.

Thankful they are all save, particularly the Coasties.

So with all this information at hand, Clean, have you formed a learned opinion of the merits of the CG position?

For my part, I go with the good idea side: these guys have put themselves at risk to get there and may, in many cases, have some doubts about the ability of their aircraft to do the job and still have enough fuel to make it back to land/base. In their position, with their lives on the line, I say they have every right to push for evacuation and to caution that if refused they might not be able to make it back.

Add in a good dose of the wisdom of allowing Darwin to do his work out there without excessive CG interference. Only those unfit to procreate could possibly been stupid enough to go there now, of all times, with the current forecast and the current conditions.

Okay, so it's embarrassing - and perhaps even career limiting - for a professional captain to abandon ship under these circumstances, as someone mentioned above. On the other hand, I would suggest that a professional captain who chose to go there now deserves an evaluation right alongside the similar choices made on board the late Bounty. That, too, should be career limiting. If you get fired for making the right decision, so be it, but there are folks who respect the wisdom to do the right thing. Some want to hire a responsible captain for their vessels.

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Im not an admiralty lawyer, but the USCG would have a tough time foricbly removing someone from their yacht in International waters if they didn't want to leave it. Much less an insurance company forcing an abandonment. I think we've gone off the rails here.

 

[geekatlrg]

I would be willing to bet money that it was not the hired captain that made the decision. I would go more with the billionaire owner who had his son on board and said get us the F off this boat now!

 

[Touchofgray]

Im not an admiralty lawyer, but the USCG would have a tough time foricbly removing someone from their yacht in International waters if they didn't want to leave it. Much less an insurance company forcing an abandonment. I think we've gone off the rails here.

Look up the narrative of the skipper/owner of the westsail 32 made famous in "A perfect storm." It fits perfectly with what clean is saying about the pressure to abandon.