RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[Christian]

But what's carrying the leafblower? The wind. At a speed much lower than the wind.

Maybe Rimas is in charge of wind?

The storm system is being moved (as a whole) by the gradient wind - it can even stall and not move at all - which will still have whatever high winds are in the storm system on the same spot for some time

OK, I'll buy that with respect to storm systems.

Related mystery: I've sat and baked in the summer sun while watching the wall of sea breeze slowly advance toward me across the harbor. Why doesn't it move at the speed it's blowing?

A sea breeze is a fairly stationary system - basically - land heats up in the sun - the hot air rises (creating a slight local low pressure close to the ground) - this sucks relatively cold air in from the water - heats it up - rises.....etc. It can be completely stationary or can move slightly depending on how established the convection is and the temperature difference between the water surface temperature and the temp on shore - e.g. you will often see much stronger sea breezes in the land is covered in asphalt rather than forest as the heat up by the sun is obviously much stronger on asphalt/urban area than forest.

 

[spike]

For clarification, they did not carry a life raft, they carried a dinghy...a big difference.

The fact that you see a dinghy hanging off the back of the boat does not preclude the carrying of a proper liferaft or 2.

I will bet my left nut they had a liferaft.

 

[Bryanjb]

Surely it had an ais transponder? Did it lose the antenna when the rig came down? They probably didn't have a spare antenna? Never thought about having a spare antenna aboard, guess I will now.

 

[paulewill]

Clean

I have read the article in Latitude 38 by Moonduster and have read your interview with the skipper of Rainmaker.

Moonduster provides a frank and honest account of what happened, gives an explanation of "where, when, why and how" shit went down, and some analysis of the mistakes he made and why he made the decisions that led to those mistakes. I have reread the article and narcissism is notably absent.

Your interview, although presently incomplete, reads like the type of statement a lawyer has approved. It lacks the frankness and honesty of Moonduster's story, and as far as "Part 1" is concerned, seems like a typical ass covering lawyer speak version of events. You may have left being lawyer behind, but this interview is more about lawyering than journalism.

Clean, you have a chance in parts 2 & 3 to reclaim some journalistic integrity, but to do so you need to do what Moonduster has done - provide an honest account of what happened, and an even more honest account of how and why it happened. Having read Moonduster's story the reader comes away having learnt and understood where he went wrong and how he lost his boat.

I am hopeful that you can turn this thing around, but so far the way in which the story has been "revealed", incompletely, and more significantly, smelling of having been sent to a team of lawyers for approval before publication, can hardly be described as "sailing anarchy".

It's lame mate. Your readers deserve better.

 

[SCANAS]

Surely it had an ais transponder? Did it lose the antenna when the rig came down? They probably didn't have a spare antenna? Never thought about having a spare antenna aboard, guess I will now.

IIRC

Yes they had AIS

Yes antenna was on the mast

& your point?

 

[Canal Bottom]

What is left out in the Gunboat Tribe infomercial so far is the reference by several here that delivery SOP on Gunboats is to take the sails down during unsettled weather. What is also unusual is virtually all these +/- 60 footers run with specialized crew? Yes, Gunboat makes interesting boats or maybe toys. What is the Gunboat really suitable for? There is the old spirit of SA discussion. Is Gunboat a "family" boat or a $$$$$$$$ Toy that the family may get to ride on when the conditions are right? Or is the current build unsafe at any speed?

 

[Bryanjb]

My point is, carry a spare antenna so you can go find your boat after you abandon it. Who da thunk.

Surely it had an ais transponder? Did it lose the antenna when the rig came down? They probably didn't have a spare antenna? Never thought about having a spare antenna aboard, guess I will now.

IIRC
Yes they had AIS

Yes antenna was on the mast

& your point?

 

[SCANAS]

My point is, carry a spate antenna so you can go find your boat after you abandon it. Who da thunk.

Surely it had an ais transponder? Did it lose the antenna when the rig came down? They probably didn't have a spare antenna? Never thought about having a spare antenna aboard, guess I will now.

IIRC
Yes they had AIS

Yes antenna was on the mast

& your point?

Even if it was working I'm 99% sure the owner & insurer would want it turned off. Don't want anyone else finding it.

 

[Bryanjb]

So an insurer would rather lose the entire asset then negotiate with some one who might salvage it? How does that make sense?

 

[slip knot]

Why do pilots always have to add some aircraft related story to a thread? It seems like every thread has some pilot posting war stories.

Because sailing and flying are very similar, not only in the physics involved, but also the people they attract. The causes of accidents are similar, and the potential lessons learned are as well.

If you change the name of Rainmaker in this story with the name of a plane, the narrative would read the same.

 

[zzrider]

For clarification, they did not carry a life raft, they carried a dinghy...a big difference.

The fact that you see a dinghy hanging off the back of the boat does not preclude the carrying of a proper liferaft or 2.

I will bet my left nut they had a liferaft.

In Part 1 of the front page infomercial, Captain Perfect specifically mentioned an impeccably prepared life raft and ditch kit:

CB:We organized all the safety gear under the aft day bed, assuming this would be the easiest accessed place if the boat were to turn over or an emergency. Under the day bed was the life raft, a drybag full of MRE’s to last 5 people 4 days, complete offshore medical kit, our primary ditch bag (full of hand held flares, aerial flares, glow sticks, first aid, water bottles, heat blankets, mirrors, smoke, water dye, solar panel 12v charger, sat phone charger, hand held VHF and a hand held gps), and our rig ditch kit.

Apparently this equipment was either packed as ballast, inaccessible for some reason, or only intended for use when abandoning ship in nice weather.

 

[alphafb552]

Clean

I have read the article in Latitude 38 by Moonduster and have read your interview with the skipper of Rainmaker.

Moonduster provides a frank and honest account of what happened, gives an explanation of "where, when, why and how" shit went down, and some analysis of the mistakes he made and why he made the decisions that led to those mistakes. I have reread the article and narcissism is notably absent.

Your interview, although presently incomplete, reads like the type of statement a lawyer has approved. It lacks the frankness and honesty of Moonduster's story, and as far as "Part 1" is concerned, seems like a typical ass covering lawyer speak version of events. You may have left being lawyer behind, but this interview is more about lawyering than journalism.

Clean, you have a chance in parts 2 & 3 to reclaim some journalistic integrity, but to do so you need to do what Moonduster has done - provide an honest account of what happened, and an even more honest account of how and why it happened. Having read Moonduster's story the reader comes away having learnt and understood where he went wrong and how he lost his boat.

I am hopeful that you can turn this thing around, but so far the way in which the story has been "revealed", incompletely, and more significantly, smelling of having been sent to a team of lawyers for approval before publication, can hardly be described as "sailing anarchy".

It's lame mate. Your readers deserve better.

+1

 

[captpiratedog]

For clarification, they did not carry a life raft, they carried a dinghy...a big difference.

The fact that you see a dinghy hanging off the back of the boat does not preclude the carrying of a proper liferaft or 2.

I will bet my left nut they had a liferaft.

In Part 1 of the front page infomercial, Captain Perfect specifically mentioned an impeccably prepared life raft and ditch kit:

CB:We organized all the safety gear under the aft day bed, assuming this would be the easiest accessed place if the boat were to turn over or an emergency. Under the day bed was the life raft, a drybag full of MRE’s to last 5 people 4 days, complete offshore medical kit, our primary ditch bag (full of hand held flares, aerial flares, glow sticks, first aid, water bottles, heat blankets, mirrors, smoke, water dye, solar panel 12v charger, sat phone charger, hand held VHF and a hand held gps), and our rig ditch kit.

Apparently this equipment was either packed as ballast, inaccessible for some reason, or only intended for use when abandoning ship in nice weather.

Now thats funny! really funny! esp how they even talked about having it and being so prepared for the "White Squall" that killed the adventure. My personal felling is that that rich bitch wasn't goin g in no raft if a helo could come get them back to warm coco

it also goes to show, no matter how exp. you think you are or are shit can hit the fan leaving you wet with a broken boat. Imean really.. In the interview, capt n crew, multiple exp n lic. ect , auto pilot on , capt is asleep, crew playing angry birds on auto pilot not watching for bad shit because its such a great boat with all the bells n whistles.. so now it seems a GB in a white squall with sails up is a bad call... human error .. bad luck... ?????

 

[ropetrick]

I'm sure that part two will be all about how it was the skipper's decision to bail. No pressure from the owner. Just the right thing to do.

I really want to hear about the bashing into the freighter. Another rational idea.

 

[billy backstay]

I'm sure that part two will be all about how it was the skipper's decision to bail. No pressure from the owner. Just the right thing to do.

I really want to hear about the bashing into the freighter. Another rational idea.

I think at least half of posters like this are most likely totally clueless about the situation you are opining about.....

 

[Herr Wizard]

Couple of first-hand anecdotes regarding microbursts and tornadoes. First, we had a microburst come between our house and our neighbors house during a thunderstorm. Other than being under a thunderstorm warning (which cautions there may be strong winds) there was no additional warning. The microburst took the siding off our neighbors house and cleared our deck like some giant's hand swept across it to include throwing our gas grill about 10 feet into the yard. The microburst left garbage cans on the street no more than 100 feet away undisturbed.

Second anecdote is the tornado that came through Hampton Roads in May 2012. I was inside the Hampton Yacht Club when it took a direct hit as the tornado went up the river and over the bridge. Besides all the knocked over J-boats and dingies scattered on land, a sailboat tied up at the marina behind the Crowne Plaza lost her aluminum mast (main in the bag and roller-furled jib) to the high-winds of the tornado. This boat was about 20 feet from my friend's Tartan that we had been racing on earlier that day so we were able to get right up to it and inspect the damage. It appeared that the instantaneous high wind loads caused the short bowsprit to lift up some which led to the rig coming down. There was a video on youtube of this tornado coming through the marina and you can see the boats all of a sudden heel to one side and then rapidly heel to the other as the tornado passes. It doesn't show the dismasting but the high degree of rolling by the boats was quite impressive.

Based on this first-hand experience and given what we've been able to glean from the Rainmaker incident, I think the microburst or water spout bringing the rig down is completely plausible and likely. The instantaneous ramp-up in wind speed coupled with the sea state would create some incredible shock loading in the rig. I imagine there's a good chance she experienced more than the 70 knots reported.

 

[Boo-Yah]

For clarification, they did not carry a life raft, they carried a dinghy...a big difference.

The fact that you see a dinghy hanging off the back of the boat does not preclude the carrying of a proper liferaft or 2.

I will bet my left nut they had a liferaft.

In Part 1 of the front page infomercial, Captain Perfect specifically mentioned an impeccably prepared life raft and ditch kit:

CB:We organized all the safety gear under the aft day bed, assuming this would be the easiest accessed place if the boat were to turn over or an emergency. Under the day bed was the life raft, a drybag full of MRE’s to last 5 people 4 days, complete offshore medical kit, our primary ditch bag (full of hand held flares, aerial flares, glow sticks, first aid, water bottles, heat blankets, mirrors, smoke, water dye, solar panel 12v charger, sat phone charger, hand held VHF and a hand held gps), and our rig ditch kit.

Apparently this equipment was either packed as ballast, inaccessible for some reason, or only intended for use when abandoning ship in nice weather.

Now thats funny! really funny! esp how they even talked about having it and being so prepared for the "White Squall" that killed the adventure. My personal felling is that that rich bitch wasn't goin g in no raft if a helo could come get them back to warm coco

I am going to call you on that one. When the choice is raft or helo. You always get in the helo. Once in the raft during a storm. The prefered exit is a helo ASAP. Weight is clearly paramount on these performance boats. I suspect the raft under the couch... "We organized all the safety gear under the aft day bed, assuming this would be the easiest accessed place if the boat were to turn over or an emergency. Under the day bed was the life raft, a drybag full of MRE’s to last 5 people 4 days, complete offshore medical kit, our primary ditch bag (full of hand held flares, aerial flares, glow sticks, first aid, water bottles, heat blankets, mirrors, smoke, water dye, solar panel 12v charger, sat phone charger, hand held VHF and a hand held gps), and our rig ditch kit." was not much of a vessel. Even with the best ship.. I consider any raft or lifeboat to be a last resort. The moment they thought the passengers safety was in peril calling the USCG to get them off was the best call. The moment the USCG heard the group was in a small raft large resources would be dispatched to find that small item anyway.

Whether the design should have been there in the first place or whether the design is suitable for a family offshore boat are worth debating. The call for help is and was not debatable if there was any thought of moving to the raft. If the call for help was all wrong the USCG has their own policies, practices, and procedures to deal with that. In this case they point with pride that their efforts were of value. This from the USCG...

Watchstanders at the Coast Guard 5th District Command Center in Portsmouth received notification at approximately 1:50 p.m. that the 55-foot catamaran Rain Maker, homeported in Manhattan, New York, suffered a broken mast in approximate 40-mph winds and 13-foot seas roughly 200 miles southeast of Cape Hatteras, North Carolina.

The Coast Guard issued an urgent marine information broadcast and prepared to launch aircrews to respond.

The crew aboard the approximately 350-foot cargo ship Ocean Crescent responded to the UMIB, stating they were located approximately 40 miles from the distressed sailboat and were diverting to respond.

An MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter crew and a C-130 Hercules airplane crew, both from Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City, North Carolina, were launched at about 3:20 p.m.

The Ocean Crescent crew arrived on scene at approximately 4:05 p.m. and unsuccessfully attempted to come alongside Rain Maker.

The Coast Guard helicopter crew arrived on scene at approximately 5 p.m. and hoisted all five people. The five boaters were transported to Dare County Regional Airport in Manteo, North Carolina, and arrived at approximately 8:10 p.m. in good condition.

“The mission today was challenging for our crews due to the distance from shore and the weather conditions,” said Petty Officer 1st Class Allen Facenda, an operations specialist in Portsmouth who worked on the case. “The crew we rescued had a registered and up-to-date emergency position indicating radio beacon that told us their exact position. All five people were wearing life jackets and were prepared to abandon their vessel in a life raft. We were happy to get there before that became necessary.”

In the very simplest of terms the USCG determined their rescue actions were "essential to saving of life" so they executed. When it comes to search and rescue the modern USCG is limited to "An operation with the primary purpose of retrieving persons in distress and delivering them to a place of safety. This may include providing for certain medical care or other critical needs. Rescue operations may also be performed for the purpose of preventing or mitigating property loss or damage. However, missions shall not normally be performed for the purpose of salvage or recovery of property when those actions are not essential to the saving of life. Beneficial secondary consequences of a rescue operation may be to prevent environmental damage or remove hazards to navigation, but these are not considered part of the rescue operation’s objective."

Even in one of Mr. Clean's video interviews Alan very lightly touches on the subject of trying to use a Gunboat without a "pro" crew of specialist with a planned female owner of a future hull... In this case three of the "best" pros went "tits up" within 200 miles of the US East Coast on a well prepared nearly new hull.

 

[Charlie Noble]

What about the FOILING 42 FT G4? What's going to happen when these guys start taking delivery of those?:

"A new multipurpose coastal cruiser-racer"

"easy to handle and forgiving"

"Kids will love the single berths"

"simple and easy to sail"

Or is the current build unsafe at any speed?

 

[RKoch]

I guess the experienced captain wasn't aware that a frontal passage is often accompanied by T-storms, tornados, and micro-bursts.

 

[Boo-Yah]

What about the FOILING 42 FT G4? What's going to happen when these guys start taking delivery of those?:

"A new multipurpose coastal cruiser-racer"

"easy to handle and forgiving"

"Kids will love the single berths"

"simple and easy to sail"

Or is the current build unsafe at any speed?

High performance inshore boats are one thing... I have not heard any responsible calls to ban Star Boats or Melges 24's.... We could make the same call with motorcycles on land. In this case the leading edge Gunboat is being pushed by some as a high speed family ocean passage maker? Sort of a Winnebago tweaked by Ferrari. Do the kids, wives, and girlfriends belong in those bunks or on the settee filing their nails in the naive hope that the hired specialist at the controls are up to their game 24/7? Their is a question for SA to dispatch if the once robust testicals and found and returned....