RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[Edith Bicknell]

Im not an admiralty lawyer, but the USCG would have a tough time foricbly removing someone from their yacht in International waters if they didn't want to leave it. Much less an insurance company forcing an abandonment. I think we've gone off the rails here.

Look up the narrative of the skipper/owner of the westsail 32 made famous in "A perfect storm." It fits perfectly with what clean is saying about the pressure to abandon.

Sure. If you press an epirb button you are probably looking to be taken off. And if they come 200 miles out to save you, they don't want you to just say hello. Maybe they'll send the owner a bill. But nobody is going to be removed against their will.

 

[joneisberg]

I would be willing to bet money that it was not the hired captain that made the decision. I would go more with the billionaire owner who had his son on board and said get us the F off this boat now!

I'd say you nailed it...

 

[ease hike trim]

Combination of too much money, and absence of sailing skills and knowledgle about the ocean. Adds to the urgency for a "born again" SA absent all of the rich assholes. There is by definition nothing "anarchy" about sailing (?) boats that cost 100s of 1000s of dollars (should stick with golf).

Lot you fucking know, DeNunzio.

 

[Innocent Bystander]

I would assume that they were taking the boat down for the Miami show, given it won boat of the year, and that explains some pressure to get the show on the road. I'm not entirely sure why you'd be 200 nm out if that were your destination, however.

South of Hatteras the GS is pretty close to shore and pretty much along the shore by Florida. Fairly common the cross the stream, head south well offshore and recross north of Bimini. Often gets you East of the lows that spin up the coast to become NE-ers. Timing across the stream is critical as they seem to have discovered.

As to CG pushing to get you off? Yep. Once they are in the loop, it's all about preserving life, not boats. Can't force you off but they will very strong advocates and it is a take it or leave it deal.

 

[Mckarma]

Combination of too much money, and absence of sailing skills and knowledgle about the ocean. Adds to the urgency for a "born again" SA absent all of the rich assholes. There is by definition nothing "anarchy" about sailing (?) boats that cost 100s of 1000s of dollars (should stick with golf).

Jealous much?
What does money have anything to do with this whole situation. Does having money equate to not being a skilled sailor? What kind of perverted logic is that?

Dumbfuck.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Lets give the Coast Guard some credit here...what they probably more likely say is "...with the deteriorating forecast, we may not be able to get to you later..." If they made it back with less fuel then you'd like to have (i.e. a low fuel light illuminated, or about to illuminate), then going back later into worse wx (higher winds, longer time to rescue/hoist due to wx) then you might not be able to go, cause there's no way to get back...

Lets also for now give the Skipper some benefit of the doubt that once told that, and having had things go badly of late, that the prudent thing to ensure the safety of the crew is to request the rescue while the Coast Guard says they can come, and not hope that they can still make it later if things continue to go south.

Still wonder why they left in the fist place, but that's a different argument than the "do we get off now or not" discussion....

This is a bit of a pet subject for me, I have researched this a lot over the years and talked to dozens of rescuees.

The CG is trained to push you as hard as they can to get off the boat, once they are there. I have never seen a report where they bodily removed someone, but they pressure crew very, very strongly to abandon, and only yacht captains who absolutely know their rights (plus a couple of crazy people) have successfully refused.

It's certainly possible that Chris figured it would be safer to abandon and then revisit after the brunt of the system is finished with her mayhem, or that the owner or the insurer made the call and made it absolute. Having a good signal from the boat, and her close (ish) proximity to Hatteras probably made that decision a lot easier.

Thankful they are all save, particularly the Coasties.

So with all this information at hand, Clean, have you formed a learned opinion of the merits of the CG position?

For my part, I go with the good idea side: these guys have put themselves at risk to get there and may, in many cases, have some doubts about the ability of their aircraft to do the job and still have enough fuel to make it back to land/base. In their position, with their lives on the line, I say they have every right to push for evacuation and to caution that if refused they might not be able to make it back.

Add in a good dose of the wisdom of allowing Darwin to do his work out there without excessive CG interference. Only those unfit to procreate could possibly been stupid enough to go there now, of all times, with the current forecast and the current conditions.

Okay, so it's embarrassing - and perhaps even career limiting - for a professional captain to abandon ship under these circumstances, as someone mentioned above. On the other hand, I would suggest that a professional captain who chose to go there now deserves an evaluation right alongside the similar choices made on board the late Bounty. That, too, should be career limiting. If you get fired for making the right decision, so be it, but there are folks who respect the wisdom to do the right thing. Some want to hire a responsible captain for their vessels.

I am not sure what is your question but if I have it right, I think given the number of rescues they make, that it is a good approach. But I also think sometimes someone wants off and the boat can still be safely inhabited.

 

[geekatlrg]

If I put myself in his shoes I think I would have made the same decision lives are at stake to much to lose. Even if the boat was not insured it’s a small amount to him.

What I am interested in is the recovery process.

What was the current condition of rainmaker when she was abandoned?

Has the recovery vessel been launched?

Will there be a bad ass mission impossible rescue video like there was for phaedo?

Was there a tracker left on the boat?

 

[DDW]

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Do we know there was an EPRIB involved?

Yes, we do.

OK but hoping you are someone will eventually put a little more color into the answer. Was the EPRIB fired first? Was there no other communication? I have read some narratives wherein there was communication with the CG, who then said "fire your EBIRB so we can find you".

I hope never to be in that situation (I was very near that location almost exactly 12 months ago, but had waited nearly 2 weeks for better weather, and had an uneventful passage to the Bahamas). If I were to find myself so situated, I imagine alerting the CG via satellite phone while attempting to get closer to shore with engine or jury rig. It appears that in this case the decision to abandon was made prior to the CG being on scene, there would be no other reason to bring her alongside a ship. I hope to hear the whole story, the more of these you have heard the better your decision making - in the event - is likely to be.

 

[Guvacine]

Combination of too much money, and absence of sailing skills and knowledgle about the ocean. Adds to the urgency for a "born again" SA absent all of the rich assholes. There is by definition nothing "anarchy" about sailing (?) boats that cost 100s of 1000s of dollars (should stick with golf).

Jealous much?
What does money have anything to do with this whole situation. Does having money equate to not being a skilled sailor? What kind of perverted logic is that?

Dumbfuck.

If you are a golf player with too much money, you can see a nice looking milion-dollar boat in a shiny magazine and go... "that's cool, I think I'll buy one of those - my golf buddies will be so impressed". If you don't have too much money - not so much of an option.

 

[joneisberg]

My guess for the airlift is: owner request combined with a deteriorating forecast, combined with the well-known pressure the USCG puts on you once there. "We're not coming back for you if you EPIRB us again!" has been heard many times.

Do we know there was an EPRIB involved?

Yes, we do.

Do you know whether RAINMAKER was the 55 slated to be in the Miami show?

I see where Hull #2 has recently been launched, and her home port is actually Miami Beach, but the launch date seems like it might have been too recent for the boat to make it there...

 

[inhiding]

Owner, in an earlier recorded interview, sounded a bit arrogant and ignorant.

"Carbon fiber hulls and carbon fiber mast gives one the feeling of authority" ....

Authority over ma nature? Don't think so.

Saw it on one of the networks this morning.

Hopefully his wife will exercise some "authority" and let him know how irresponsible it was to take their son out there.

 

[6924]

scanas,

2 new boats losing their rigs within 18 months is certainly noteworthy when one considers the handful of these boats out there. How many Gunboats are there ? My wild guess is less than 50.

2 rigs down is a 5% catastrophic failure rate. worthy of a discussion

 

[snoochie poochie]

Fools. Then drag the coast guard into it because your scared.

Why the hell would anyone be out there this time of year? Just stupid.

It's clear that not only can the boat not handle it but neither can the owners.

Plenty of boats have seen 70 kts.

The herd needs thinning......

 

[spike]

If I had to venture a guess, I would say this boat was headed to St Maarten and hull 3 headed to Miami.

Its a shame...the blood, sweat and tears GB poured into hull 1 is off the charts.

 

[AlienBowman]

Inhiding said, "Owner in an earlier recorded interview, sounded a bit arrogant and ignorant."

Source? It might be fun to watch.

 

[Guvacine]

Clean is all "anarchy" when it comes to personal peeves, but gets very defensive and downrite Nancy on us when it comes to scewups by mates (e.g. VOR) or advertisers.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

If the rig came down because they got caught out with too much sail up, I'll be the first to criticize. If the rig came down because the rig came down, I'll chalk it up to another stupid rig failure, of which there are far too many. All that said, if Gunboats really have only lost two rigs in a decade, that's pretty damned good.

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Believe they are quoted as saying they couldn't get sail down fast enough. Will be good to get the whole story.

 

[6924]

clean,

nice trying to protect a big advertiser - but it wasn't 2 rigs in a 'decade' . 2 rigs in 2 years

 

[John Drake]

Rigs coming down because of too much sail up?

Heard of or seen rigs coming down due to rigging failure.

Heard of or seen rigs coming down due to human error like not setting the new runner fast enough.

Heard of or seen rigs come down due to inherent flaw or hardware failure.

But a rig coming down because of too much breeze? Anyone know who built the sails? 'Cause I wanna seem that shit.