RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[MR.CLEAN]

Where did the passion and objectivity of Sailing Anarchy and Scot Tempesta sailed off to...

6 years of lawyers have vacuumed it all out.

I mean, you can tell how dispassionate we are by the fact that we don't even travel to go cover events anymore - just reprinting press releases from the NOOD regatta and North Sails like everyone else...

I'm off to Google to find all the other breaking news about the Rainmaker on those other objective, passionate sailing sites.

 

[fastyacht]

So what I'm hearing is that, on these big GBs, a dismasting is essentially a game-over, oh-shit-we-gotta-get-off-the-boat-now event. The falling rig compromises the integrity of the interior, it can't be cleared by hand, and attempting to clear it under power (obviously) is going to foul the props.

zzrider, don't you think that is a weird conclusion to make right below a picture of a Gunboat 66 that motored home hundreds of miles after their Gunboat was the first ever to be dismasted? Or are you OK with that nonsequitur?

Yes it seems a non-sequitur but the weather conditions were very different.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

So what I'm hearing is that, on these big GBs, a dismasting is essentially a game-over, oh-shit-we-gotta-get-off-the-boat-now event. The falling rig compromises the integrity of the interior, it can't be cleared by hand, and attempting to clear it under power (obviously) is going to foul the props.

zzrider, don't you think that is a weird conclusion to make right below a picture of a Gunboat 66 that motored home hundreds of miles after their Gunboat was the first ever to be dismasted? Or are you OK with that nonsequitur?

Yes it seems a non-sequitur but the weather conditions were very different.

Don't be an idiot FB. easyrider wrote "on these big GBs, a dismasting is essentially a game-over" directly beneath the picture of a boat that proved exactly the opposite - that a dismasting is not a game-over. I imagine that is obvious to anyone not here just to pollute.

 

[Ed Lada]

So what I'm hearing is that, on these big GBs, a dismasting is essentially a game-over, oh-shit-we-gotta-get-off-the-boat-now event. The falling rig compromises the integrity of the interior, it can't be cleared by hand, and attempting to clear it under power (obviously) is going to foul the props.

zzrider, don't you think that is a weird conclusion to make right below a picture of a Gunboat 66 that motored home hundreds of miles after their Gunboat was the first ever to be dismasted? Or are you OK with that nonsequitur?

Now Clean, ride easy on zzrider. He would have swept up the broken glass, used an emergency flare to melt it all and blown several hollow glass floats. He would have thrown them over the side after attaching lines from the broken rig to the glass balls, thereby providing a means to pull the rig off of the boat. Then he would have taken pieces of the carbon fiber spare sails and whipped up some emergency windows to close off the gaping holes where the windows were. Finally he would have jury rigged a new engine out of spare parts and some leftover polenta with portobello mushrooms from that nights dinner and while simultaneously drying out the saturated electronics with a blow dryer fashioned from a wine bottle and a propane tank. Easy peasy as long as you carry a Swiss Army knife and have a little ingenuity.

 

[dopo]

I am Sorry to upset you Mr. Clean, I understood what was meant by the Drive it from under comment, I really just wondered how the hell anyone would ever think that putting the engine in gear with a rig hanging off the boat is a good idea.

To me the whole interview seems as if it went thru the spin cycle.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

They thought they were invincible, like the Bounty captain. Keep rolling the dice, and eventually the odds catch up with you. I used to ride motorcycles. One day I woke up and realized I was fortunate to only have had a couple minor incidents and not been injured. Time to walk away from the roulette wheel...

Okay, let me get this straight. for RKoch:

Bounty Captain = Chris Bailet

Sailing into known, massive hurricane = sailing into forecast of 35-40 knots with higher gusts.

Sailing into known, massive hurricane with leaky boat, nonfunctional pumps, and green crew = sailing into 35-40 knot forecast with experienced professional sailors and line of boats with exemplary safety record.

Watching your balls shrink into your gut when you realize motorcycles are dangerous = ________________

Fill in blank

 

[MR.CLEAN]

I am Sorry to upset you Mr. Clean, I understood what was meant by the Drive it from under comment, I really just wondered how the hell anyone would ever think that putting the engine in gear with a rig hanging off the boat is a good idea.

To me the whole interview seems as if it went thru the spin cycle.

Say what you mean next time, and recognize that, as I've already said about a hundred times, we're not doing deep pockets investigative journalism here. Chris and the crew are the only ones with the information, and they are only allowing out what they want to. All that being said, I spent an hour on the phone with Jon yesterday and asked him dozens and dozens of tough questions - enough to satisfy me that there was no coordinated storytelling' here, and that everything happened pretty much as Chris said.

That is enough for me dopo, and I invite you to call me to discuss it if you have some real reason to do so besides rubbernecking. 248 563 0657.

 

[surfsailor]

They thought they were invincible, like the Bounty captain. Keep rolling the dice, and eventually the odds catch up with you. I used to ride motorcycles. One day I woke up and realized I was fortunate to only have had a couple minor incidents and not been injured. Time to walk away from the roulette wheel...

Okay, let me get this straight. for RKoch:

Bounty Captain = Chris Bailet

Sailing into known, massive hurricane = sailing into forecast of 35-40 knots with higher gusts.

Sailing into known, massive hurricane with leaky boat, nonfunctional pumps, and green crew = sailing into 35-40 knot forecast with experienced professional sailors and line of boats with exemplary safety record.

Watching your balls shrink into your gut when you realize motorcycles are dangerous = The sudden realization that - unless it happens in 16 knots and calm conditions - the 'unsinkable, passage safe' GB 55 you're sailing thru the gulfstream off Hatteras in the middle of winter is basically completely destroyed when the mast goes over the side.

Fill in blank

Did I win?

 

[billy backstay]

Yes, Clean; there's a whole lot of rubberecking going on here.................

 

[fastyacht]

OK Clean whatever.

I think you are missing the point really -- regardless of how well-formed zz's point was. What *is* the point is that, from reading your part II, one might interpret the results of the rig coming down as being a "game over" situation. (Forget the Phaedo foto). It certainly reads that way from the Capt- paraphrase as shit, there's water coming in here, and there, and it's only going to get worse, let's get this rig off in a hurry hit the throttles let's drive out from under this mess oh shit now we have a bigger problem. Well, that's game over right there isn't it?

Is it the boat's "fault?" Is it the captain's "fault?" Well I don't have enough information to find fault. But it is pretty clear that perhaps there are some design aspects to look carefully at. As a designer, I am not feeling particularly rosy about this design for offshore work. And frankly I didn't feel fully keen before this event, either.

And there are some actions taken by the crew that are points to learn from. For instance why the hurry to drive the rig out? Why not take a bit more time and effort? Well, it seemed to me that he was really really antsy about the damage that had already been caused, the water coming in due to it, and the fear that further damage was imminent if he couldn't get that rig off completely in a hurry.

Why is this such a problem? Because the boat is built out of foam with thin skins and it is pretty fragile. It isn't made of 6 mm steel plate...so the damage thing is a much bigger deal. Is this aspect worse than a modern racing monohull? Not necessarily. They both have a real concern here.

Just put yourself in the captain's shoes--was he not confident in the seaworthiness of the boat in the state of damage? That is what I read from it. No, he was not comfortable with the ability of the boat to carry on after dismasting.

Pollution? Are we going there again? Isn't that rig on the bottom and the boat floating around a source of pollution?

 

[surfsailor]

Well, this is a major 'car crash' - kinda like when all those Japanese guys stacked up their Ferraris. Human nature is what it is.

 

[dopo]

Clean,

Your candor and reflection on the interview is appreciated. I will call you at 3 am from a blocked number.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

OK Clean whatever.

I think you are missing the point really

I may be missing the point, but one of my jobs is to try to keep this forum as free as possible from logically false arguments like the one I pointed out. because I do not ban anyone, I have to do this by pointing out tautological posts one at a time.

Clean,

Your candor and reflection on the interview is appreciated. I will call you at 3 am from a blocked number.

copy

 

[adrumm]

Surely it had an ais transponder? Did it lose the antenna when the rig came down? They probably didn't have a spare antenna? Never thought about having a spare antenna aboard, guess I will now.

You'd be better served by investing in a Delorme inReach or Yellow Brick. They are water proof, battery powered, world wide coverage, and you can control who sees the track. The Delorme will only run about 5 days without external power, but the Yellow Brick will go for some weeks. They have plenty of other utility beyond the ability to re-find your boat too. Had Rainmaker spent the extra couple hundred bucks on top of the $2.5M it would have easily been found. And if you want an insurance job you can always turn it off before you get lifted into the helo.

Based on the story provided today, it sounds as if the hull and deck were in pretty bad shape. Whether the boat is found or not, chances are it will be totaled. Having open ports and salt water abound, probably does not bode well for the light weight build.

Hard to fathom, but I feel bad for the owner. I'm sure he was sold an A+ service from the captain, crew, and factory. Pay us dearly, make sure all the off season work is done at the factory (I'll deliver it for you) we will spend a ton of your cash prepping the boat for a trip South. Lets face it, all the owner is there for is too write checks....period. He paid dearly to have pros do everything...... pro captain and crew, pro riggers, pro boat yard...etc. such a same. Just goes to show, shit happens regardless of how much you spend.

Venture to guess the owner is not-to-happy. A $250K off season refit and trip South all on his dollar and this happens. He is certainly chatting with his attorney.

 

[bigmarv]

I am Sorry to upset you Mr. Clean, I understood what was meant by the Drive it from under comment, I really just wondered how the hell anyone would ever think that putting the engine in gear with a rig hanging off the boat is a good idea.

To me the whole interview seems as if it went thru the spin cycle.

Say what you mean next time, and recognize that, as I've already said about a hundred times, we're not doing deep pockets investigative journalism here. Chris and the crew are the only ones with the information, and they are only allowing out what they want to. All that being said, I spent an hour on the phone with Jon yesterday and asked him dozens and dozens of tough questions - enough to satisfy me that there was no coordinated storytelling' here, and that everything happened pretty much as Chris said.

That is enough for me dopo, and I invite you to call me to discuss it if you have some real reason to do so besides rubbernecking. 248 563 0657.

What contact have you or the crew had with PJ/GB since the event? Have you put any questions at all to PJ? You have his personal email address, so if not, why not? Ditto for the Designer, hall, etc?

Are you asking Chris what sort of glass it was in the pilothouse?

Are you asking anybody any hard questions at all?

 

[MR.CLEAN]

What *is* the point is that, from reading your part II, one might interpret the results of the rig coming down as being a "game over" situation.

I don't care what 'one might interpret', or other wishy-washy bullshit language. If you want to know what I think, rather than what I know, here's my OPINION.

1) The owner and son being 'shocky' was a bigger factor than the story makes us believe. I think Chris is sheltering Brian and Max a bit, as you'd expect from a skipper with a lot of loyalty towards an owner he respects and likes.

2) The abandonment was not just about the state of the Rainmaker - it was a result of the combination of the following factors: First, the state of the owner and son. Second, the fact that they'd just been crunched hard by a cargo ship and didn't know how much damage there was or how much water they were taking on or would take on. Third, the hydraulic fluid and glass made it a serious hate mission to get anything done on deck. Fourth, the forecast two days out was brutal, as one attempted salvage crew found out. And finally, because of their location and the obvious difficulties with rescuing onto another boat, the window for helicopter rescue was very, very small and the decision to abandon had to be made now or never.

3) If the owner wasn't there and the forecast was not so snotty, I'm almost positive that Chris, Jon, and George would have jettisoned the rig, saved the boom, cleaned up the boat, and set about getting to shore. With the forecast they had there was some percentage chance that they would die, which makes their decision to abandon pretty easy, to me at least.

 

[AlienBowman]

Isn't it amazing how a little information can reduce to scope of speculation?

Still curious about the weather decision. Seems the explanation on that aspect was a little thin.

Also wondering about engaging the engines with apparently every line on the boat hanging overboard. Turning the engines on is one thing but who put them in gear without looking in the water?

That description of the freighter trying to come up to the boat is the scariest thing in the whole report.

Looking forward to part 3.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

What contact have you or the crew had with PJ/GB since the event? Have you put any questions at all to PJ? You have his personal email address, so if not, why not? Ditto for the Designer, hall, etc?

Are you asking Chris what sort of glass it was in the pilothouse?

Are you asking anybody any hard questions at all?

bigmarv, I'm not answering any of your questions at all. not because they are bad, but because you are a bit of a cunt. kindly fuck off.

 

[GnarlyItWas]

"At any rate, I am learning alot from this saga. For instance, I didn't realize that calling for a helo rescue was the favored Plan B among recreational sailors now. In my naivety, I always pretty much figured that calling to be rescued means I've already exhausted all my other options: my boat is dead in the water and can't be jury-rigged, is sinking and can't be saved, and I've already abandoned to my liferaft."

For the record you cannot summon a USCG Helo. Any licensed mariner has a duty and obligation to notify the Coast Guard or equivalent when lives are in peril. The USCG then determines what actions and assets to put into play. A professional mariner who delays informing the authorities when the safety of the ship or person is in jeopardy would be derelict of their duties. In this case you had three(3) guys with tickets with passengers aboard and a vessel dead in the water during a storm.

PAN PAN-The urgency signal PAN PAN is used when the safety of the ship or person is in jeopardy.

MAYDAY-The distress signal MAYDAY is used to indicate a station is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance

EPIRB is supposed to be limited to "grave and imminent situations"....

The three guys with tickets had absolutely no choice outside of notifying the USCG. Any delay with the hope of just dealing with the circumstances onboard without outside notification was never a responsible option.

The rig was successfully cleared away. According to PJ the boat had no further damage, and was not taking on water. They were uncomfortable, no doubt, but were safe aboard a 55' $2.5m carbon life raft. Where is the grave and imminent danger? They should have issued a Pan-Pan.

Surprised by this. Yachtmaster training from my recollection instructs a skipper to press the button as soon as you think you might be in shit. Pan Pan for ankle deep and mayday for deep shit. Part of the MOB procedure, even in tame conditions is to press the fricken button. You can always call back later and say you got it under control. Arguably the 1st call might have been a PAN PAN situation, but I'm not going to second guess that call. But by my training they did the right thing by calling the coasties promptly.

 

[zzrider]

So what I'm hearing is that, on these big GBs, a dismasting is essentially a game-over, oh-shit-we-gotta-get-off-the-boat-now event. The falling rig compromises the integrity of the interior, it can't be cleared by hand, and attempting to clear it under power (obviously) is going to foul the props.

zzrider, don't you think that is a weird conclusion to make right below a picture of a Gunboat 66 that motored home hundreds of miles after their Gunboat was the first ever to be dismasted? Or are you OK with that nonsequitur?

Clearly, for Rainmaker, dismasting was a serious game-over event.

Clean: Point taken. But, Phaedo was racing when she dismasted, right? And how many (and what kind of) crew did she have aboard at the time? I know the owner was at the helm, but did the crew consist of only mom, the two kids, and the dog? My point goes more to questioning the marketing of these boats as simple family cruisers that don't need pro crew to sail around the world in all conditions, which is exactly how they are represented by GB.

Of course, I would also expect that people with enough $$ to actually buy one are smart enough not to believe the marketing BS, which would seem to explain why pros like Soma and Chris have managed to rack up so many miles driving these things all over the place.