RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[us7070]

What kind of standing rigging did that Hall spar have?

Info probably available in the boats specs online if you want to know; just sayin'......

Well, no, it isnt on thier web page. As it shows up for me, there is no info at all on spar, rig dimensions, rigging type, anything. And to get a 'brochure' you have to request one on line. So they can check your credit rating??

I'm pretty sure it's composite standing rigging - it is on other GB's

 

[Veeger]

Rig failure is a possibility on just about any performance boat made. When momentary loads far exceed the predicted levels then I would rather have my rig come down than the chainplates rip out of the hull (Same net effect to the mast). Was this event avoidable (Aside from delaying departure) I simply don't know. None of us do. I do think it is worth intelligently going through the possible scenarios and then have a plan of action for each of them.

When reading part 2 of the story I can't for the life of me think why the freighter would make a windward approach to the disabled boat. Why not come up to leeward and let the catamaran drift down to you? (Maybe I read that wrong.)

The standard play is to use the ship to create a lee to mitigate wind and wave. The hope is to create an almost protected breakwater using the ship mass to allow the transfer. The ships use the maneuver all the time to take pilots on and off. The weather side would be the bad side of a sea wall. You would not want to go near there. This ship was only 350 feet and maybe moving too fast for the abilities of the wounded GB Rainmaker.

That makes perfect sense. Thank you. Just glad I have never had to be there!

BooYah's got it right. Two more thoughts-- 1) At 350' that ship was quite likely moving around a bunch as well and if properly making a lee it would be near enough to beam on that it would be rolling heavily in those conditions. And when you're 'right there', it's most impressive and intimidating.

2) My second thought is this. In a commercial rescue scenario, you're often dealing with two captains who both think they're in charge of the process. It sounds like the ship's captain made up his mind about how to do things on his own and frankly, he botched his approach with too much speed. They're just not used to doing such maneuvers. I've seen ship captains become much more open to 'other' ideas once they've made a bollicks of something.

I'm impressed and pleased that the GB skipper took control of the situation and insisted on a different approach. It's also impressive that he got nearby with one engine and that they got heaving lines on board. This 2nd approach enabled a much more informed assessment of the conditions and risks and aborting the ship rescue was an entirely correct response--especially with a helo already on the way!

 

[Dilligaf0220]

I wonder if a replacement GB 55 is on order?

1) I wonder if the owners previous Swan would have lost its rig.

2) Bagging on multimillionaire owners is cool & all...but didn't him and his kid do exactly what you'd want them too? STFU, and wait for the "A+ Pro's" to determine the course of action. I can imagine them handling things a lot worse.

In 15mins you've gone from King Of The World to scrapping $2.5Mil of your fav toy. I'd give Mr.Cohen an ounce more respect in post-fuckup reflection.

 

[RKoch]

Yes, that was my point. They'll see what changes/improvements GB does to the boats. And may or may not be willing to insure them. What premiums, what limits... perhaps they'll no longer insure GBs offshore. But if premiums rise sharply or ins becomes unavailable, that's going to hurt GB moving boats. Peep won't buy if they can't get insurance. That was one of the causes of the housing market crashing here in Florida.... Ins premiums skyrocketed, and even became unobtainable at any price. Still feeling the effects.

It is good to know that your accuracy in marine insurance facts is about the same as your accuracy in offshore cat sailing

Is there not an insurance problem down under inre offshore tris? There's even a thread about it. And you're delusional if you think an underwriter is happy about writing a $2.5 M check, they're in business to collect them, not write them. Naturally they're going to seek to minimize their exposure, and raise premiums to cover their remaining risk. Maybe you should engage your brain before flaming.

 

[Gypsyclubjuggler]

Rig failure is a possibility on just about any performance boat made. When momentary loads far exceed the predicted levels then I would rather have my rig come down than the chainplates rip out of the hull (Same net effect to the mast). Was this event avoidable (Aside from delaying departure) I simply don't know. None of us do. I do think it is worth intelligently going through the possible scenarios and then have a plan of action for each of them.

When reading part 2 of the story I can't for the life of me think why the freighter would make a windward approach to the disabled boat. Why not come up to leeward and let the catamaran drift down to you? (Maybe I read that wrong.)

The standard play is to use the ship to create a lee to mitigate wind and wave. The hope is to create an almost protected breakwater using the ship mass to allow the transfer. The ships use the maneuver all the time to take pilots on and off. The weather side would be the bad side of a sea wall. You would not want to go near there. This ship was only 350 feet and maybe moving too fast for the abilities of the wounded GB Rainmaker.

Good video here of that manoeuvre:


It seems to knock down the waves and block the wind well but the ship still wallows like a pig so there's a lot of relative motion.

 

[DryArmour]

Rig failure is a possibility on just about any performance boat made. When momentary loads far exceed the predicted levels then I would rather have my rig come down than the chainplates rip out of the hull (Same net effect to the mast). Was this event avoidable (Aside from delaying departure) I simply don't know. None of us do. I do think it is worth intelligently going through the possible scenarios and then have a plan of action for each of them.

When reading part 2 of the story I can't for the life of me think why the freighter would make a windward approach to the disabled boat. Why not come up to leeward and let the catamaran drift down to you? (Maybe I read that wrong.)

The standard play is to use the ship to create a lee to mitigate wind and wave. The hope is to create an almost protected breakwater using the ship mass to allow the transfer. The ships use the maneuver all the time to take pilots on and off. The weather side would be the bad side of a sea wall. You would not want to go near there. This ship was only 350 feet and maybe moving too fast for the abilities of the wounded GB Rainmaker.

Good video here of that manoeuvre:

I may be wrong but I think that is a pilot master transfer. The main issue I have is that with so much windage with the ship I could see it getting blown down onto the catamaran.

 

[ProaSailor]

I was told by people more knowledgeable on GBs than I am that it is common practice to let the autopilot steer in 30+ knots of TWS given the appropriate amount of rag is up (Storm blade and triple reef). Again, I am old school. I wouldn't do it but it is entirely possible that i am just naive on the state of the art autopilots these days and their ability to safely drive the boat.

Certainly less feedback than holding the helm when trimming the sails. All the more crucial when conditions are changing, esp. wind direction.

They had been on a heading of 100 with TWD 120 degrees off to starboard (TWD 220), when the wind shifted from SW to NW, bringing it astern.

According to the 42-45 hour forecast, this happens about the time and place the mast came down:

Surface Wind - WSW 30-35, Fri 30 Jan 2015 1:00pm

http://www.wingo.com/sa/rm1/#?appState=~(PosPlay~'pos~delay~0.2~atFrame~14)

Precipitation - WSW 30-35, Fri 30 Jan 2015 1:00pm

http://www.wingo.com/sa/rm2/#?appState=~(PosPlay~'pos~delay~0.2~atFrame~4)

CB: At noon on the 30th, Jon is on watch after a 20 minute handover. TWS is between 25-40 kts, seas are between 12-15 ft. TWD of 220. Heading is 100, autopilot is steering to an apparent wind angle of 110. The boat was feeling stable, waves were starting to slap the wingdeck and the leeward hull. George stayed topside with Jon, so I could head down to catch some sleep.

SA: So you wake up to all hell breaking loose.

CB: At 1350, I wake up to a gust hitting the side of the hull like nothing I’ve ever heard, and I spring out of my bunk....

(source: http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/02/23/post-mortem-2/ )

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Rig failure is a possibility on just about any performance boat made. When momentary loads far exceed the predicted levels then I would rather have my rig come down than the chainplates rip out of the hull (Same net effect to the mast). Was this event avoidable (Aside from delaying departure) I simply don't know. None of us do. I do think it is worth intelligently going through the possible scenarios and then have a plan of action for each of them.

When reading part 2 of the story I can't for the life of me think why the freighter would make a windward approach to the disabled boat. Why not come up to leeward and let the catamaran drift down to you? (Maybe I read that wrong.)

The standard play is to use the ship to create a lee to mitigate wind and wave. The hope is to create an almost protected breakwater using the ship mass to allow the transfer. The ships use the maneuver all the time to take pilots on and off. The weather side would be the bad side of a sea wall. You would not want to go near there. This ship was only 350 feet and maybe moving too fast for the abilities of the wounded GB Rainmaker.

Good video here of that manoeuvre:

That is a pilot transfer. And if you watch some others you'll see it's (transfering to the ladder ) is not easy even for those who do it everyday. A bigger ship provides a bigger lee. Trying to board the windward rail would be immediate disaster for a plastic disruptive technology boat in those conditions.

 

[Veeger]

Actually, the 'smooth' made in the lee during the turn further flattens the seas/chop in the lee. For coming alongside another boat offshore, you don't have that effect. For pilot transfers, you still have 4-10 knots of headway and reduce the 'drift' effect.

During a rescue, Yes, the larger vessel will be drifting down on the small boat during the transfer because everything is stopped. But you won't be badly affected by it provided everyone gets the heck off-- toot sweet! (ya don't stop and record things for posterity on your ithingy or GoPro!)

 

[Chasm]

Pilot transfer videos.

Here is a transfer to a similar sized vessel (30m longer) in generic North Sea conditions. The pilot tender is a 25m SWATH.

Oops, the transfer of the MOB dummy went wrong, yet again. Now recover it.

Includes a view of the propeller.

The recovery part shows nicely that there is indeed some wave action.




Conclusion, looks easy, until you get close.

 

[Veeger]

I could only DREAM of having a SWATH platform to work from!!! (Note: trained individuals with an ideal platform and it still ain't easy...)

 

[Gypsyclubjuggler]

That SWATH shit looks bling as fuck! The motion compared to a conventional craft is sooper smooth! At speed anyway.

 

[Remodel]

Pilot transfer videos.

Here is a transfer to a similar sized vessel (30m longer) in generic North Sea conditions. The pilot tender is a 25m SWATH.

Oops, the transfer of the MOB dummy went wrong, yet again. Now recover it.

Includes a view of the propeller.

The recovery part shows nicely that there is indeed some wave action.

Nothing about that looks easy...

 

[billy backstay]

It would look a lot harder if Pilot boat weren't a SWATH hull.

 

[bawlmer]

Let's see ...

• Rich guy makes questionable investment in something he doesn't understand
• Obtains insurance policies at unrealistic premiums due to large portfolio coverage and special relationships
• Drags family members into situation without regard for possible effects on their well being
• Compounds risks through further uninformed, questionable decisions and meets calamity while claiming what transpired was impossible
• Plea distributed to masses by investment agents asking for prayers and encouraging emotional involvement in rich guy's personal tragedy to deflect inquiry into agent's role
• Bailed out by government agencies and taxpayers money with no consideration on behalf of either party for reimbursement for costs
• Media kowtows to rich guy because of advertising tie-ins, emphasizes the human element while ignoring the blatant stupidity and failing to follow the money
• Bloggers fan flames, but no one notices because the 10 minutes of notoriety afforded the incident have passed

Meanwhile, single unemployed mother enrolled in university leaves child alone in locked car for five minutes while buying milk at a corner store. Receives 5 year sentence for reckless child endangerment.

Nothing new to see here, move along.

Damn

Word

 

[us7070]

Let's see ...

• Rich guy makes questionable investment in something he doesn't understand
• Obtains insurance policies at unrealistic premiums due to large portfolio coverage and special relationships
• Drags family members into situation without regard for possible effects on their well being
• Compounds risks through further uninformed, questionable decisions and meets calamity while claiming what transpired was impossible
• Plea distributed to masses by investment agents asking for prayers and encouraging emotional involvement in rich guy's personal tragedy to deflect inquiry into agent's role
• Bailed out by government agencies and taxpayers money with no consideration on behalf of either party for reimbursement for costs
• Media kowtows to rich guy because of advertising tie-ins, emphasizes the human element while ignoring the blatant stupidity and failing to follow the money
• Bloggers fan flames, but no one notices because the 10 minutes of notoriety afforded the incident have passed

Meanwhile, single unemployed mother enrolled in university leaves child alone in locked car for five minutes while buying milk at a corner store. Receives 5 year sentence for reckless child endangerment.

Nothing new to see here, move along.

Damn

Word

1) lots of people buy boats they aren't really ready for yet - so what.., that's part of the fun of getting a new boat - to learn more. this guy realized that and hired a full time pro captain.

2) his insurance rates are between him and his insurance company - no business of yours

3) i think we read that his son is 24 years old - i doubt he was "dragged".., and is old enough to decide for himself whether he wants to sailor not

4) we haven't heard the owners opinion of what happened - we mostly agree that the decision to leave was questionable at best. seems like the captain takes full responsibility for it

5)so what if someone asked you to pray for the crew when they were facing trouble

6) so because he's rich, he shouldn't get services that all other mariners are offered by USCG?

7)maybe, but i just think that investigative journalism was never a thing at this website.., so i don't see any conspiracy when it doesn't happen

8) a boat lost a mast, and crew got helo'd off - it's not really that big a deal

9) i'm sorry about the mom

 

[TwoLegged]

Full time Pro Captain ?

So experienced and professional that a simple sheet of plywood and a few basic tools and screws, is not stuffed under one of the palatial beds for a winter excursion in the North Atlantic.

No , wait, safety gear is the stuff a professional squeals for help with.

Did you see the size of the glass area on that disruptive-tech condomaran?

A simple sheet of plywood wouldn't make stormboards for that lot. It would need the whole lumberyard

 

[longy]

#2 - as has already been discussed by Estar, insurance will go UP for other cat owners, as insurance companies are going to lump all catamarans in the same risk group.

#6 - the use of those USCG services (along with the 42' cat and the Condor 40) may push the USCG to impose further 'safety' requirements on others.

So RM actions do not occur in a void, they will over time affect other mariners whether they take the same risks or not.

 

[Canal Bottom]

Ok so here is a real question for some to ponder while we drum our fingers on one hand while driving up the clicks for Scot and Alan on the other....waiting for the next segment of our current fav sailing reality show. It may be time for SA to drop the old school ploys of CBS and the other dinosaurs and catch up with the cool cats at NetFlix releasing everything they have at the same time? I am not sure how much longer many will be enthralled during the commercial breaks by Clean and few others calling them by the same shallow 4 letter labels?

So here is the real question that will hopefully drive the clickometer up enough to push out the next segment of the Rainmaker Goes to Sea Show...

What do the gargoyled trophy wives and spoiled offspring of multiple marriages do for heating and AC on these family self serve circumnavigation seagoing condos? Even the 911 comes with AC and safety glass now. Is there some PJ-GB Pixie Dust Juice they all drink to see the same things Daddy sees in the brochure and sales pitch? Or are sales limited to Go With the Flow Families only?

 

[us7070]

in the other thread, SA member Loop posted links to pictures taken from the freighter - scroll down for link to higher res pictures

good find Loop!

He should get some swag!

http://www.crowley.com/News-and-Media/Press-Releases/Crowley-Managed-Ocean-Crescent-Provides-At-Sea-Assistance-to-Ill-Fated-Catamaran