RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE
- Thread starter DryArmour
- Start date
Is that the 50 or the 46?Sometimes when it was blowing 30 we did put the kites up and waited a bit for God to take them down, so we could repeat it again.....
Veeger
Super Anarchist
Not a foreign ship. Not a tanker. Heavy lift. Very similar in size to the Hvy Lift ship I sailed on for a couple years. In that trade, ship-handling skills are much more refined and above average. Quite probably twin screw and has a bow thruster. But windage is a bugger and vsl motion is 'significant', getting it right on the first pass is still a challenge.
My WAG on oil spilled. Basic hydraulics: pressure is held between the valve & the cylinder. Opening the valve releases pressure. The cylinders probably also had nitrogen gas chambers to force them to extend faster when valve is opened. So volume of oil released would be based on: pressure in the line, the oil doesnt compress but rubber hoses do expand a little, & volume of oil in cylinder. Unpressurized oil in the hoses will stay in, hose ID too small too allow much air in to break airlock. So oil spill is held to volume of oil in the cylinders. Oil on the other side of the valve is unpressurized unless pump is operated, even in electrical system. Yes, pressurized oil reservoirs are available, but I doubt they were used in this context, and when used, just enuff pressure to raise oil to pump level.
Mainsheet cylinder may have been double acting (pumped both directions, no gas charge).
So my take on the RM situation would be: rig falls, this releases most pressure in the cylinders (there's nothing to pull against, altho outhaul might still be loaded if boom/main tack still intact). Oil squirting from hose is driven by nitrogen charge. Three cylinders? mainsheet, outhaul, downhaul.Total oil sprayed out 3 - 6 qts.
Mainsheet cylinder may have been double acting (pumped both directions, no gas charge).
So my take on the RM situation would be: rig falls, this releases most pressure in the cylinders (there's nothing to pull against, altho outhaul might still be loaded if boom/main tack still intact). Oil squirting from hose is driven by nitrogen charge. Three cylinders? mainsheet, outhaul, downhaul.Total oil sprayed out 3 - 6 qts.
billy backstay
Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Sometimes when it was blowing 30 we did put the kites up and waited a bit for God to take them down, so we could repeat it again.....
84 would have been the 46 I reckon...
Damage is to port side, where the mast fell down, to leeward? Consistent with theory of being on starboard tack when peak of storm passed and wind shifted ninety degrees, from SW (broad reach) to NW (aft?).in the other thread, SA member Loop posted links to pictures taken from the freighter - scroll down for link to higher res pictures
good find Loop!
He should get some swag!
http://www.crowley.com/News-and-Media/Press-Releases/Crowley-Managed-Ocean-Crescent-Provides-At-Sea-Assistance-to-Ill-Fated-Catamaran
rm.JPG
it's interesting that the cabin top seems undamaged - i kind of thought the whole thing would be crunched
the mast must have just landed on the window - kind of unlucky in a way
the other thing is i was reading about the boat somewhere, and it seems the GB 55 does have doors that close off the hulls from the salon, and could stop down flooding into the hulls
I'd bloody well hope so given the `enclosure' to the indoors are clears on a bolt rope track.
It does mean that the failure of the windows shouldn't be cause for sinking but he did say the companionway wouldn't close properly and what with broken glass and hydraulic fluid everywhere….
Moonduster
Super Anarchist
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My guess on the fluid is a little more - three rams nominally 75mm in diameter and a meter long yield about 4.5 liters each. So we're talking about 13.5 liters of hydraulic oil. Let's say that half that remained on deck. That's 6 liters. Using the 10:1 rule, you'd need two spray cans of brake cleaner and perhaps 5 minutes to make that as fucking dry as the owner's wife when she learns that $2.5M was just pissed down the fucking shitter.
Seriously, the hydraulic fluid is all about prep. It's no big deal. Anyone who tells you differently just ain't been around that block.
Seriously, the hydraulic fluid is all about prep. It's no big deal. Anyone who tells you differently just ain't been around that block.
Moonduster
Super Anarchist
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Yo, Blockhead ...
You finally wrote something with which I nearly agree. But as usual, you ran on a bit much at the mouth. I decided to edit it for accuracy:
I don't have a calling or a mission or a profession or some other bullshit self-aggrandizing label, all I want to do is show offthe interesting and compelling parts of a sport that I love.
Let's evaluate that on the Hotchkiss scale - the seven deadly sins of Narcissism:
See, the problem is that, in life, without some raison d'etre you're just another nobody. In this case, a narcissistic nobody.
You finally wrote something with which I nearly agree. But as usual, you ran on a bit much at the mouth. I decided to edit it for accuracy:
I don't have a calling or a mission or a profession or some other bullshit self-aggrandizing label, all I want to do is show off
Let's evaluate that on the Hotchkiss scale - the seven deadly sins of Narcissism:
- Magical thinking - Check
- Shamelessness - Check
- Arrogance - Check, Check, Check
- Envy - Check
- Entitlement - Check
- Exploitation - maybe
- Bad boundaries - check mate
See, the problem is that, in life, without some raison d'etre you're just another nobody. In this case, a narcissistic nobody.
NoStrings
Super Anarchist
If I had but one minor critique, I'd change bad boundaries to no boundaries; but that's trivial. It's so apparent that he's going down on the GB skipper during this "innerview" that it almost makes me gag.
No one did a fucking thing wrong, not a bad decision was made. Yet a boat was lost and crew rescued. No lessons learned about boat prep (the fucking rig fell down for chrissakes) or wx routing ( when things went south, you had NO FUCKING OPTION BUT A 9-1-1 call because conditions were deteriorating, which ANY SANE MOTHERFUCKER knew was going to happen.) And CB states that he'd make the same wx call again.
I wouldn't let these pro sailors walk my fucking dog, let alone sail my boat.
Wayne, at least you owned your decisions. You got screwed.
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back when you were still chasing ambulances.
Moonduster
Super Anarchist
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I didn't get screwed. I took a calculated risk and lost. That happens sometimes ...
I've got to agree that Moonduster gave us a blow by blow critique of his boat loss and from it we can learn lessons. I've fucked up but I'm always loathe to tell those stories so kudos to him.
The Rainmaker `expose' doesn't teach us much.
Maybe the hydraulic oil thing and maybe something about rigs coming down to flex cabin tops and smash glass, but it ain't a candid story of mistakes made and lessons learned.
Sorry Clean.
Maybe part 3??
NoStrings
Super Anarchist
Yeah, but you owned it. It wasn't Fijii's fault, nor S&S, nor some wx forecaster. You took your shot, rolled snake eyes, and then told everyone about it. You didn't try to make yourself look like a victim.
Because it isn't. =) But that illustrates the point that such a transfer is not easy.
I picked the video because the vessels have a similar profile and the weather is similar. Extra points for the "Do we need to drop another MOB dummy?" moment with the screw. It also shows why training MOB recovery in adverse conditions is necessary.
OCEAN CRESCENT is a 120x20m heavy lift / general cargo vessel.
RUNAWAY BAY in the video is a 150x20m reefer.
I think lessons learned so far are
- Line cutters on props are not an option.
- Companionways that can't be closed once SHTF are not an option.
- If you can get hydraulics below deck, were you don't have to cut them when the stick comes down, do so.
- If you can't get hydraulics below deck, investigate quick disconnects further.
- Seal electronics against water. Even within supposedly dry areas. The ditch back gear is nice but should not be necessary.
- Take a hard look at which glass is used. If in doubt bring a golf ball to the talk with the sales broker....
TwoLegged
Super Anarchist
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I don't think that's just unlucky. It's a consequence of a design choice.
Chris White's Atlantic designs and the bigger Gunboats all have a forward cockpit, which places the mast 6 feet or more ahead of the pilothouse. The GB55 has the mast stepped ight in front of the glass, significantly increasing the chances of a broken mast hitting the glass.
Yes, but as explained in part 2 of the interview: "The boom and rig impacted and compressed the pilothouse port mullion above the companionway. This bent the port companionway sliding hatch frame so we cant shut it all of the way".
Indeed. (Tho your boat never had any standing rigging in the first place!Not on mine - even if all the standing rigging is gone
)Some catamarans use an unstayed biplane rig, which seems like a much safer option that these fragile stayed spars.
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that's a different door - the door that wouldn't close is the door from the salon out to the area in front of the window by the mast base - it's open in the picture
what i am talking about are two doors that are inside the salon - they can't be seen in the picture.
the two doors i am referring to close off each of the two hulls from the salon.
earlier, it was suggested that the boat was too low and that either seas coming on board over the transom, or through broken windows would downflood the hulls
it now appears that there is a way to stop that
so occasional waves washing through the salon doesn't have to be itself a catastrophe - they will drain quickly aft.
in this case, they lost electronics.., but as i mentioned above, that isn't really a big deal, and anyway, it should be possible to position the electronics so that the panel and other critical pieces are at least as protected as on a typical monohull.
once you view the glass and roof as just a big dodger, and you can close the hulls, i think the design is pretty seaworthy - i mighty choose polycarbonate for the front windows.
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Clean
I'm waiting for part 3.
Maybe the reason for the delay is that you are trying to sanitise and disinfect it before it goes to press.
But you know what, you will never be able to remove the smell of bullshit completely.
That's what this "interview" is. No wonder you don't like the term "journalism".
Treat your readers with some respect. They are and intelligent and experimented group of sailors.
And naturally some of them are cunts. Your term not mine.
I'm waiting for part 3.
Maybe the reason for the delay is that you are trying to sanitise and disinfect it before it goes to press.
But you know what, you will never be able to remove the smell of bullshit completely.
That's what this "interview" is. No wonder you don't like the term "journalism".
Treat your readers with some respect. They are and intelligent and experimented group of sailors.
And naturally some of them are cunts. Your term not mine.
