John Drake
Banned
- Banned
- #1,461
And then there is the whole hell of a lot of folks who just don't go about stepping in front of the on coming train.
RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE
- Thread starter DryArmour
- Start date
Maltese, while insinuating that CB and I are butt buddies probably makes you feel more manly it has little to do with the issue. I doubt that you are man enough to say it to my face. You all have the right to speculate and draw your own conclusions, I have a right to form my conclusions having talked to the captain and crew. Saving the people on board was his primary responsibility. If the boat sank in the storm that came through the following days, would you change your tune about leaving to soon? I don't know that CB has accepted any of the job offers, I just know that he is in the Carib sailing with his friends. Most all of the people that hire a captain for their yacht are wealthy, if you can't deal with them you will not be employed very long, it is not a bad trait.
billy backstay
Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Where you personally ever in a situation where you thought you might die in the middle of an ocean?
If you actually had, I expect you would bloviate far less about how "you" would never have abandoned THIS ship! Poppycock!
But, hey! This is SA; carry on with the endless, mindless blathering.
For me; Dave Barrys column yesterday is far more entertaining than this nonsensical
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bodega87
Anarchist
While sometimes this makes sense, and people over step their bounds I have to say that you're wrong about this 100%.
Should only those who have gone through it talk about it? Should the sailors that that could potentially find themselves in a situation like this one day just sit back, and read the know-it-alls posts about it? Reading the "interview" leaves one to believe it was simply shit luck, which we all know is completely false.
There is a LOT to learn from this event, and you need to get off your high horse and cut down on the pretentiousness that is rampant in sailing. I could not give a single fuck what you've done, who you are or how much of a better sailor you think you are than everyone else. If theres anything I can learn from this to improve my knowledge, my skills and hopefully never get myself into a similar situation, then I'll read. I'll post questions. This isn't about you. This isn't about just RainMaker and what's looking to be a terrible "pro" crew; this is about nailing down exactly what went wrong, why, and how to avoid that in the future. When you fuck up, you have to be able to admit why or you'll never learn. Maybe you're the one that should shut his mouth and stop spewing bullshit.
Bottom line, people are attacking each other rather than going for the facts. Clean wont answer, his homeboy is trying to save his career. There will be zero positive resolution to this. Maybe the owner will grow a pair and tell us what actually happened unless the claim is falsified(highly likely) and he can't divulge what really went down.
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Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
Yeah, everybody who thinks it was unwise to go for a fun sail off Cape Hattaras... not only in the dead of winter but into the teeth of a storm that was making national news... we're all a bunch of wanna-be sailors, huh.
This whole episode was a sad clusterfuck and it's a matter of good luck on top of supreme dedication and competence on the part of the USCG that nobody died. I have no opinion on whether the boat was properly built etc etc -BUT- acting as though one is bulletproof is a whole different thing when real bullets start flying past your head.
This is a case of a super rich guy and his hired help seeking thrills and attempting to prove how bad-ass they are. Well guess what, Mother Nature kicked them aside casually and now they are trying to preen and posture that yeah they're really still bad-asses, you just don't understand etc etc.
I have been in hurricanes but not by choice. I have never been off Cape Hattaras in a winter storm and instead of thinking I should shut my pie-hole, I think a lot of people would be wiser to follow my example.
Fixed.
I hope this is not a blueprint for our economic future but then I don't want to drag this thread into politics.
FB- Doug
Has the added benefits of completely removing you from the experience of sailing while also looking like a plastic box. Sign me up.http://www.yachtingworld.com/video/boat-tests/broadblue-rapier-550-video-47#Rapier 550 "The future of performance cruising"Brilliant. Go away to sea, and sit a leather-covered chair just like the one at your executive desk and in your executive car. Wankers.Also quite an interesting layout. Better for sail management, but imagine the shit storm when this rig fails. I'm not a cat guy; however, i'm thinking that keeping the rig on the outside might be a decent idea.
What boat is in that picture, Wafi?
http://www.broadblue.com/rapier550/
Review here. How the hell do you trim the sails in one of these?
LotsO'Knots
Member
The ship transfer was presumably attempted because of the distance/range of the helicopter. The USCG had the crunch numbers to determine if they could even make it there and back, and in the end, figured they had just enough fuel for 18 minutes on station. 18 minutes isn't a lot of time to conduct a lift for 5 people, even assuming that it all goes right the first time.
In the rescue that I assisted in, we decided (against the USCG's advice) that a ship transfer was safer and easier than a helicopter lift, and were successful in getting the victim hoisted onto the ship. Was it sketchy? Hell yeah of course, but so is a chopper transfer. Obviously a lot of it depends on the local conditions and the maneuvering capabilities (or lack thereof) of the ship itself. In this case, the ship fucked up their intended maneuver and ran right through the bow of RM, and nearly sucked em under into the prop. Still probably the first/best option IMHO if there is a ship in proximity.
On that note, considering the details from my rescue and from RM rescue, it shocked me that ships had absolutely no equipment or training or any CLUE about the best tactics for transfers/rescues. When I came along side (in a 40ft monohull) we assumed that there would be some sort of crane or lifting tackle, MOB nets or life rings dangling, maybe even a rescue boat/RIB on standby if needed from the ship - but NOTHING - they just chucked a rope & batten pilot's boarding ladder down the side and said good luck. We had to improvise a lifting system on the spot and with great difficulty communicated our intentions to the bridge. Fortunately it worked out, but given the regularity of ships being called upon to assist in rescues, why isn't there more training involved for their crews or a SOP even? Surely they should be equipped to deal with one of their own crew overboard!!??
In the rescue that I assisted in, we decided (against the USCG's advice) that a ship transfer was safer and easier than a helicopter lift, and were successful in getting the victim hoisted onto the ship. Was it sketchy? Hell yeah of course, but so is a chopper transfer. Obviously a lot of it depends on the local conditions and the maneuvering capabilities (or lack thereof) of the ship itself. In this case, the ship fucked up their intended maneuver and ran right through the bow of RM, and nearly sucked em under into the prop. Still probably the first/best option IMHO if there is a ship in proximity.
On that note, considering the details from my rescue and from RM rescue, it shocked me that ships had absolutely no equipment or training or any CLUE about the best tactics for transfers/rescues. When I came along side (in a 40ft monohull) we assumed that there would be some sort of crane or lifting tackle, MOB nets or life rings dangling, maybe even a rescue boat/RIB on standby if needed from the ship - but NOTHING - they just chucked a rope & batten pilot's boarding ladder down the side and said good luck. We had to improvise a lifting system on the spot and with great difficulty communicated our intentions to the bridge. Fortunately it worked out, but given the regularity of ships being called upon to assist in rescues, why isn't there more training involved for their crews or a SOP even? Surely they should be equipped to deal with one of their own crew overboard!!??
billy backstay
Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Dude, I said nothing about me, I am no one. So, just carry on with the circle jerk saying the same mostly stupid things over and over again...
EDIT: the first two stories give plenty enough facts to draw a reasonable conclusion.
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LotsO'Knots
Member
Steam Flyer - Are you suggesting that there is a cut-off point after which no boats should ever leave the East Coast? Noone should ever sail anywhere in the Winter? And they did not leave in front of a well-forecast/publicized storm. They left when THE FUCKING WEATHER ROUTER TOLD THEM TO. You saying you know more about weather routing than Commander's Weather?
Quote:Yeah, everybody who thinks it was unwise to go for a fun sail off Cape Hattaras... not only in the dead of winter but into the teeth of a storm that was making national news... we're all a bunch of wanna-be sailors, huh.
This whole episode was a sad clusterfuck and it's a matter of good luck on top of supreme dedication and competence on the part of the USCG that nobody died. I have no opinion on whether the boat was properly built etc etc -BUT- acting as though one is bulletproof is a whole different thing when real bullets start flying past your head.
This is a case of a super rich guy and his hired help seeking thrills and attempting to prove how bad-ass they are. Well guess what, Mother Nature kicked them aside casually and now they are trying to preen and posture that yeah they're really still bad-asses, you just don't understand etc etc.
I have been in hurricanes but not by choice. I have never been off Cape Hattaras in a winter storm and instead of thinking I should shut my pie-hole, I think a lot of people would be wiser to follow my example.
Quote:Yeah, everybody who thinks it was unwise to go for a fun sail off Cape Hattaras... not only in the dead of winter but into the teeth of a storm that was making national news... we're all a bunch of wanna-be sailors, huh.
This whole episode was a sad clusterfuck and it's a matter of good luck on top of supreme dedication and competence on the part of the USCG that nobody died. I have no opinion on whether the boat was properly built etc etc -BUT- acting as though one is bulletproof is a whole different thing when real bullets start flying past your head.
This is a case of a super rich guy and his hired help seeking thrills and attempting to prove how bad-ass they are. Well guess what, Mother Nature kicked them aside casually and now they are trying to preen and posture that yeah they're really still bad-asses, you just don't understand etc etc.
I have been in hurricanes but not by choice. I have never been off Cape Hattaras in a winter storm and instead of thinking I should shut my pie-hole, I think a lot of people would be wiser to follow my example.
Boo-Yah
Anarchist
When your home, workplace, boat yard, or yacht club is on fire. When do you see to it that someone contacts the fire department.
They made an attempt to get off the boat and onto the ship before it was dark simply because it was there and the helicopter was not. When the approach and transfer to the ship could not be executed with reasonable care and safety. The captain and crew backed off.
The skipper and crew knew what forecast they left in and with a now near open boat close to dead in the water the prudent mariner made the call to remove the passengers and crew in daylight prior to the arrival of the next weather event.
They made an attempt to get off the boat and onto the ship before it was dark simply because it was there and the helicopter was not. When the approach and transfer to the ship could not be executed with reasonable care and safety. The captain and crew backed off.
The skipper and crew knew what forecast they left in and with a now near open boat close to dead in the water the prudent mariner made the call to remove the passengers and crew in daylight prior to the arrival of the next weather event.
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floater
Super Duper Anarchist
So, apparently, you boned the owner's daughter, and subsequently got cast from the garden.
Was it worth it?
and please forgive if it was instead the wife, sister, or mother in law. Perhaps I am reading too much into this...
Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
You can draw your own conclusions.
-I- would not have left then, given what little I know about "weather routing." Shucks I don't even know much about meteorology but I do know it ain't about meteors.
When you get shitty results, insisting on the excellence of all the steps of the process leading up to the shitty result is rather a stupid thing to do. Despite all the posturing and spin-doctoring, this was a -really- shitty result. QED
FB- Doug
joneisberg
Super Anarchist
- 5,919
- 0
One that will no doubt finally include a plausible explanation of how - after 28 hours of so of sailing following their departure from Hatteras Inlet, which included a full night @ 18-20 knot speeds, and then throttling back to 7-10 the next morning as conditions deteriorated - they still only managed to cover 200 NM, or thereabouts...
Stopping to land that fish turned into an epic struggle comparable to Santiago's in THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA, perhaps?
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I have been in situations similar to RM. Did I think I was going to die? No. Too busy dealing with the situation, and once things were under control and we could take a breath, there was no thought of dying.However, in my cases I knew I had the knowledge and assets to stabilize the situation and make what repairs/jury rigs were necessary. I wasn't aboard RM, of course. It may have been likely the captain and crew didn't have the experience and knowledge (despite 1000s of sea miles) to recognize what assets they had aboard, and how to utilize them. Examples: Use rear isinglass to repair broken window. Use anchor and ___ (berth cushios, perhaps?) to make a sea anchor. Dry out electronics and balky engine. Use longeron and storm jib, perhaps sun awning if aboard, to effect a jury rig. It appears they weren't aware of these and other options were possible, and their only option was to call for rescue.
SloopJonB
Super Anarchist
Just checked back in to this thread and found the problem right away - they built that thing with the hulls upside down.Holy crap.....that looks terrible. So why did the pretty one have to be abandoned at sea? The above boat will be around forever......I feel bad for the their slip mates. Imagine waking up to that every morning! The d-bad inside does not have to look at it.
Watch Clean's pimping video on the owners. One of the cutie wives talks with pride on her J105 accomplishments.
If you pull some of the old marketing materials you could reach the conclusion that Gunboat is really nothing more than a MacGregor on steroids... fast, light, go anywhere with the whole family... Now you can have a wider and faster MacGregor in any paint combination at less than 200 times the original cult(relabled Tribe) cost.
NoStrings
Super Anarchist
.Just checked back in to this thread and found the problem right away - they built that thing with the hulls upside down.Holy crap.....that looks terrible. So why did the pretty one have to be abandoned at sea? The above boat will be around forever......I feel bad for the their slip mates. Imagine waking up to that every morning! The d-bad inside does not have to look at it.
Watch Clean's pimping video on the owners. One of the cutie wives talks with pride on her J105 accomplishments.
If you pull some of the old marketing materials you could reach the conclusion that Gunboat is really nothing more than a MacGregor on steroids... fast, light, go anywhere with the whole family... Now you can have a wider and faster MacGregor in any paint combination at less than 200 times the original cult(relabled Tribe) cost.
Thats step number one in becoming disruptive.
That really isn't their job is it? Rescuing rich yachties off their toy (at great risk and cost for which they will not be compensated) isn't why they are there. This has been repeated a couple of times by some posters here - "the ship fucked up and ran into RM" - by people far more forgiving of the choices RM made thoughout. If I were a ships master, and read a little bit of that attitude on this thread, next time I heard about a yacht in distress I would just turn the radio down....
This is the Problem, not the Answer.
Commanders isn't God, you don't have to do what they say. It also turns out they are looking at exactly the same data you can get for your tax dollars already paid, and they aren't going to be on the boat to help cut away the rig if they are wrong. Pulling that excuse out of the hat after a bad result is definitely unprofessional. They are at best telling you what to expect (assuming you didn't see it on the 6 o'clock news), within the proven accuracy of an East Coast Winter forecast (piss poor typically) - the rest is all on you.
