RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[Foghorn77]

Winches are hydraulic (run off of foot switches) and can be used manually i.e with a normal sized winch handle.Pretty typical.
2 buttons are mainsheet dump and hydro dump.
The 2 clutches fore of the "electro pod" are traveler clutches with a continuous traveler sheet.
The moonroof is controlled by a button in the "electro pod".

Some of the pics are pre-refit , some not.
There's the answers to your questions, not that I believe you really want them. Seems you're trying to create a "smoking gun" where there isn't one,but keep guessing.

 

[furr_ball]

...... What's your point?

.... And your evidence???? ZERO. Nothing. Nadda.

The rig came down.

Your very defensive.....Relative or friend perhaps?

Point?

Bad call and they got smacked by weather.

But apparently so well prepared and the defenders do come across as a little partisan.

I do not know that area but it appears some wise people reckon it is not great at this time of year.

Evidence?

None, correct, it is floating somewhere off the coast because they abandoned it.

Rig fell down?

Yes

Why should that have been a game over event?

Analysis about the winches, lines and hydraulics?

What happens when it goes bad?

What are the manual options that do not rely on electrics?

Have to have a backup system.

How can you set up jury rigs, setups or the like when some bad event, like a rig falling, occurs?

See it for what it all is.

Plenty of good sailors looking at this and making comments.

Sure some maybe a bit out there but it is worthy of a critique.

Sailing involves getting out in the weather.

That is why I do it. Salt, spray, the feel of the wind.

These boats seem to wish to shield you from all that nasty weather, not saying it's wrong.

Horses for courses.

But then to expect them to be OK in extreme weather may be the wrong belief.

Nothing wrong with a good healthy debate.

 

[Training Wheels]

Is it standard, or is it an option to get the girl 40 years younger than you?

 

[captpiratedog]

However, in my cases I knew I had the knowledge and assets to stabilize the situation and make what repairs/jury rigs were necessary. I wasn't aboard RM, of course. It may have been likely the captain and crew didn't have the experience and knowledge (despite 1000s of sea miles) to recognize what assets they had aboard, and how to utilize them. Examples: Use rear isinglass to repair broken window. Use anchor and ___ (berth cushios, perhaps?) to make a sea anchor. Dry out electronics and balky engine. Use longeron and storm jib, perhaps sun awning if aboard, to effect a jury rig. It appears they weren't aware of these and other options were possible, and their only option was to call for rescue.

I wonder what conclusions K. Adlard Coles would come to on RM. It does seem that they quickly decided plan c was better that plan b and abandoned ship rather than effect some sort of jury rig. I wasn't there and don't really want to make any judgements on them .,but certainly other things could have been done. . At the end of every situation that Coles wrote about he had a conclusion section going over the rights and wrongs... What would he say about RM ?

 

[Snaggletooth]

Is it standard, or is it an option to get the girl 40 years younger than you?

platinium packiage

 

[NoStrings]

Well, Phaedo dropped her rig 600 miles out and motored home. I don't know what that means, other than a competent crew chucked a broken rig over the side, MANAGED TO NOT FUCKING FUCK UP THEIR SAIL DRIVES, and motor home. From 600 miles out in the middle of the fucking Pacific. Now, either the Phaedo crew is comprised of alien intelligence, or the RM crew is a little quick on the 9-1-1 trigger. You choose.

 

[alphafb552]

There's two options basically:

1) The decision to abandon ship was made hastily, under owner's pressure or not, casting doubt on the seamanship of the crew

or

2) The boat's survivability really was compromised by the loss of the mast - in which case you can legitimately raise questions about the basic design, considering that losing masts is not all that uncommon an event.

The GB fanboys can rant and rave all they want, but it's one or the other of the above, you can't have them both.

For what it's worth, from behind my keyboard with the information that's available, I'm leaning to no 2...

 

[NoStrings]

There's two options basically:

1) The decision to abandon ship was made hastily, under owner's pressure or not, casting doubt on the seamanship of the crew

or

2) The boat's survivability really was compromised by the loss of the mast - in which case you can legitimately raise questions about the basic design, considering that losing masts is not all that uncommon an event.

The GB fanboys can rant and rave all they want, but it's one or the other of the above, you can't have them both.

For what it's worth, from behind my keyboard with the information that's available, I'm leaning to no 2...

Well, if you look at the Phaedo dismasting, you might reconsider.

 

[surfsailor]

There's two options basically:

1) The decision to abandon ship was made hastily, under owner's pressure or not, casting doubt on the seamanship of the crew

or

2) The boat's survivability really was compromised by the loss of the mast - in which case you can legitimately raise questions about the basic design, considering that losing masts is not all that uncommon an event.

The GB fanboys can rant and rave all they want, but it's one or the other of the above, you can't have them both.

For what it's worth, from behind my keyboard with the information that's available, I'm leaning to no 2...

Well, if you look at the Phaedo dismasting, you might reconsider.

Apples and oranges - Phaedo's mast went over the side in 16 kts and smooth conditions, so the likelihood of tertiary damage was minor and damage control was relatively easy. RM lost the stick in the kind of conditons you would expect that sort of thing to happen - off the outerbanks in a winter gale - and the result was not optimum since the boat was compromised. It is the latter situation that you would design for in a boat intended for pasagemaking.

 

[surfsailor]

Is it standard, or is it an option to get the girl 40 years younger than you?

platinium packiage

The 'silicone' package offers similar benefits in the pilothouse (perhaps even better) if you can get beyond the tramp stamp, but is less versatile - an NYYC function would be mildly uncomfortable to say the least.

 

[Trickypig]

Well, Phaedo dropped her rig 600 miles out and motored home. I don't know what that means, other than a competent crew chucked a broken rig over the side, MANAGED TO NOT FUCKING FUCK UP THEIR SAIL DRIVES, and motor home. From 600 miles out in the middle of the fucking Pacific. Now, either the Phaedo crew is comprised of alien intelligence, or the RM crew is a little quick on the 9-1-1 trigger. You choose.

Off Cape Hatteras is known as the `Graveyard'.

360nm south and in the `Pacific' Phaedo lost her rig.

Two different environments.

 

[fastyacht]

I just thought of something. It would be interesting to know whether that Crowley ship had a recording anemometer, and what it said...not that it would be definitive but still, it might be indicative...

 

[loop]

Engines accessed from OUTSIDE - no engine repairs in bad weather.

The sheets coming in in front of the wheel and instruments so it looks to me like it would be a huge PITA to crank winches and pull sheets without interfering with the helm controls and whacking the helmsman in the face too.

"Glassed in porch" design with side facing instead of aft facing companionways. Hwo that glass would have stood up to serious greenies I have no idea.

Apparently no storm shutters and glass not designed to be removed.

No sea anchor.

Some hyperbole maybe, not a lot though.

Up thread- a lot of hyperbole comparing a GB to a MacGregor. However, it is fair to point out that as delivered RM wasn't quite up to serious offshore use, as was claimed.

Mr. Kent the helm pictures can be deceiving. I suspect the wide angle lens are distorting reality. The winch pit or station can be reached on both sides by standing crew without interfering with the helmsman. You could easily have a crewmember tailing or hoisting one each side at the same time.

None of the images do the area justice that is really well in front of the wheel...

You can see the port mullion right above the sliding hatch down into the port hull. That mullion took a hit from the mast, gave to the load and jammed the sliding hatch. That's a structural issue the builder must address.

No provision for washboards or similar to close that companionway in an emergency. Port fwd. window panel gone and open to flooding waves, right above the jammed hatch. No aft bulkhead to protect from waves boarding over the stern.

No safe access to engine compartment with waves coming over the stern, so no reliable power sources for drive and charging batteries.

Those are design issues the buider must address if the boat is to be sold as the ultimate family circumnavigator.

Assessing that situation, and facing the possibility of a flooded port hull in deteriorating weather, they decided to bail out. That's my take of the story so far.

Open to lots of "whta if..." and "had they..." with 100% hindsight....

 

[NoStrings]

There's two options basically:

1) The decision to abandon ship was made hastily, under owner's pressure or not, casting doubt on the seamanship of the crew

or

2) The boat's survivability really was compromised by the loss of the mast - in which case you can legitimately raise questions about the basic design, considering that losing masts is not all that uncommon an event.

The GB fanboys can rant and rave all they want, but it's one or the other of the above, you can't have them both.

For what it's worth, from behind my keyboard with the information that's available, I'm leaning to no 2...

Well, if you look at the Phaedo dismasting, you might reconsider.

Apples and oranges - Phaedo's mast went over the side in 16 kts and smooth conditions, so the likelihood of tertiary damage was minor and damage control was relatively easy. RM lost the stick in the kind of conditons you would expect that sort of thing to happen - off the outerbanks in a winter gale - and the result was not optimum since the boat was compromised. It is the latter situation that you would design for in a boat intended for pasagemaking.

Oh, so Phaedo wasn't intended for passagemaking?

 

[NoStrings]

Well, Phaedo dropped her rig 600 miles out and motored home. I don't know what that means, other than a competent crew chucked a broken rig over the side, MANAGED TO NOT FUCKING FUCK UP THEIR SAIL DRIVES, and motor home. From 600 miles out in the middle of the fucking Pacific. Now, either the Phaedo crew is comprised of alien intelligence, or the RM crew is a little quick on the 9-1-1 trigger. You choose.

Off Cape Hatteras is known as the `Graveyard'.
360nm south and in the `Pacific' Phaedo lost her rig.

Two different environments.

Water is water. Are you saying that the Hatteras water is/was so extreme that RM shouldn't have been out there!

 

[furr_ball]

Off Cape Hatteras is known as the `Graveyard'.
Two different environments.

Water is water. Are you saying that the Hatteras water is/was so extreme that RM shouldn't have been out there!

Different environment or does that make it out of the environment?

 

[Edith Bicknell]

I just thought of something. It would be interesting to know whether that Crowley ship had a recording anemometer, and what it said...not that it would be definitive but still, it might be indicative...

It would be in their log book.

 

[John Drake]

Crowley, Crowley, Crowley....hey don't we know a Crowley in the shipping biz? Maybe if we didn't ban him he could shed some insight? Just a thought.

 

[billy backstay]

I don't see how this can be compared to other vessels that dropped a rig and motored home. Never seen a GB in person, but looks like other than bunks and baths in the hulls, all the controls, navs, comms, and helm are situated in the front of the giant main salon which has no hand or grab rails anywhere that I can see in the pics. So, rig goes over, but it's ten feet to the rail, so doesn't really go over, but it's stuck there. Ginormous front windscreen breaks, allowing heaps of seawater to douse the comms, electronics all control systems, save helm and engines. So, with nothing to hang onto, and being tumbled around inside a giant washing machine on rinse and spin cycle with nothing to hang onto, how does the crew fix anything??

 

[ropetrick]

Winches are hydraulic (run off of foot switches) and can be used manually i.e with a normal sized winch handle.Pretty typical.

2 buttons are mainsheet dump and hydro dump.

The 2 clutches fore of the "electro pod" are traveler clutches with a continuous traveler sheet.

The moonroof is controlled by a button in the "electro pod".

Some of the pics are pre-refit , some not.

There's the answers to your questions, not that I believe you really want them. Seems you're trying to create a "smoking gun" where there isn't one,but keep guessing.

Thanks for the answers Foghorn.

So daggerboards are hydraulic? Must be if so much else is.

Hydraulic pump is electric or engine driven? I'll guess battery electric. And no back-up, that seems to be the design philosophy.