RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[the_abandoned_brane]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

[alphafb552]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

 

[captpiratedog]

Well that settles it.........

 

[bdu98252]

Looking at the picture of the boat with the window gone there is clearly a problem in keeping the water out. In the modern world of panoramic views etc. the large window sizes on these boats is a bit of an issue. With no materials to effectively board up the window then it is hard to see how a 80knot storm could be endured. Losing the rig on boats of this type is very likely to smash the windows and you are most likely to break a mast when it is windy.

Maybe designers need to come up with a bit of a emergency plan for the large windows they are putting into these type of boats. I am not suggesting that they should not keep putting the windows in as it is obvious the benefits for the occupants 95% of the time when they are not crossing oceans.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

Gap 4: Mainsheet. While one of the crew took the helm from the autopilot within a second of when the squall hit, because he was immediately wrestling with the wheel, he was unable to reach the emergency mainsheet dump button about a foot in front of the helm. The rig came down a few seconds later. Would a mainsheet dump have saved the rig? We weren’t there, but there’s certainly a chance it could have. But if I was sailing along on a delivery at 10-20 knots in 35-40 knots with a storm jib and triple reefed main up, I might think one person could handle both jobs from a foot away, too. I’d be wrong, but I didn’t know that until after this incident.

I just sail little boats in little waters for the most part and don't know a thing about flying a hull on a 60' cruising cat, but if I'm about to go swimming (or break something) because of a sudden gust, the order of priority would be releasing the sheet(s) and THEN steering the boat.

Is that not how it's done on these things?

 

[Edith Bicknell]

but neither the crew nor Gunboat have anything to be ashamed about

Does anyone, including Mr Clean , think the marketing claims of these boats as being competent blue water, high latitude, circumnavigators are a bit overstated given all the information on engineering and construction that was brought out in this incident ? They make them sound like Nordhavns.

 

[Snaggletooth]

They make them sound like Nordhavns.

You gonna gette flicte!

 

[SCANAS]

but neither the crew nor Gunboat have anything to be ashamed about

Does anyone, including Mr Clean , think the marketing claims of these boats as being competent blue water, high latitude, circumnavigators are a bit overstated given all the information on engineering and construction that was brought out in this incident ? They make them sound like Nordhavns.

The Arcohc Australis at 3.61m is all that is required for circumnavigation, EVERYTHING else is a want!

 

[billy backstay]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

Gap 4: Mainsheet. While one of the crew took the helm from the autopilot within a second of when the squall hit, because he was immediately wrestling with the wheel, he was unable to reach the emergency mainsheet dump button about a foot in front of the helm. The rig came down a few seconds later. Would a mainsheet dump have saved the rig? We weren’t there, but there’s certainly a chance it could have. But if I was sailing along on a delivery at 10-20 knots in 35-40 knots with a storm jib and triple reefed main up, I might think one person could handle both jobs from a foot away, too. I’d be wrong, but I didn’t know that until after this incident.

I just sail little boats in little waters for the most part and don't know a thing about flying a hull on a 60' cruising cat, but if I'm about to go swimming (or break something) because of a sudden gust, the order of priority would be releasing the sheet(s) and THEN steering the boat.

Is that not how it's done on these things?

According to the final chapter, the person at the helm wanted to push the red mainsheet release button as soon as the weather event hit, but fighting the helm delayed his ability to perform this before the rig came down. Sounds plausible, move along, all has been revealed......

 

[Edith Bicknell]

They make them sound like Nordhavns.

You gonna gette flicte!

? That's a legitimate question especially if you watched the PJ video (the one he cries in).

 

[Snaggletooth]

They make them sound like Nordhavns.

You gonna gette flicte!

?That's a legitimate question especially if you watched the PJ video (the one he cries in).

juste jokeng, bad joke. sorrey.

 

[joneisberg]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

Agreed... a pretty strong finish to a very good interview, overall...

 

[Sophie's choice]

Newbie here. Also the type of "Owner Operator" circumnavigating with my family that PJ claims GBs are designed for. We're on a Lagoon 500 condominium, and we love her. She's taken us from Seattle to Bali over the last 2 and a half years. We've made tons of mistakes and we've learned a lot. I even met PJ once at Annapolis, and he seemed shocked that we were buying a Lagoon instead of a GB. GBs are awesome boats, they just aren't for us.

I've just spent a day reading this thread. Here's what I think:

1. They should never have left when they did. Forecasts for 25-35 knots can easily become 50 knots, especially in Cape Hatteras in winter. Why go? What's the rush?
2. Evans was right, in those squall conditions they shouldn't have had their main up. When the wind wall hit them, they spent a few precious seconds fucking around with trying to blow the main. A similar thing happened when the Atlantic 57 Anna flipped. Too much sail up when a surprise squall hit. It's better to sacrifice 50 miles a day of boat speed and be prepared for the 1% "surprise scenario" then, well, to be surprised. As a former new catamaran owner, I know how much fun it can be to try to hit those 200 mile days, and GB targets this in all of their marketing. But I think these guys had too much sail up. We're out in the Java Sea right now, and we've seen waterspouts and 50 knot sudden squalls. It's scary shit. We don't want our main up if we get hit by one.
3. Commanders is great, and we use them on long passages. But we treat them as a secondary source and not as gospel.
4. I love the old GB designs, but the new GB 55 looks to me like a party boat. And I should know, because I am circumnavigating on a party boat. But I'd never go offshore in a GB 55. Not enough protection, indoor sail controls, and slanted glass windows WAY too close to the mast. Does anyone else on this thread ever drop shit from a boson's chair?
5. I showed the "how are the wife and kids ever going to clear away the rig?" photos to my wife and kids, and they thought they could have cleared that away. I know the situation on Rainmaker was much worse.
6. I can't fault any of their decisions after the rig came down. I wasn't there. I wouldn't want to risk my life trying to save some guy's boat that should never have been out there in the first place.

 

[rumfustian]

With all this talk of rescues at sea we should thank the man/engineer who set out to do the impossible and achieved it....

Igor Sikorsky

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/Igor_Sikorsky.php

 

[fastyacht]

With all this talk of rescues at sea we should thank the man/engineer who set out to do the impossible and achieved it....

Igor Sikorsky

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/Igor_Sikorsky.php

You forgot somebody:

Frank Piasecki:

http://www.piasecki.com/frank.php

 

[John Drake]

Steam Flyer - Are you suggesting that there is a cut-off point after which no boats should ever leave the East Coast? Noone should ever sail anywhere in the Winter? And they did not leave in front of a well-forecast/publicized storm. They left when THE FUCKING WEATHER ROUTER TOLD THEM TO. You saying you know more about weather routing than Commander's Weather?

Quote:Yeah, everybody who thinks it was unwise to go for a fun sail off Cape Hattaras... not only in the dead of winter but into the teeth of a storm that was making national news... we're all a bunch of wanna-be sailors, huh.

This whole episode was a sad clusterfuck and it's a matter of good luck on top of supreme dedication and competence on the part of the USCG that nobody died. I have no opinion on whether the boat was properly built etc etc -BUT- acting as though one is bulletproof is a whole different thing when real bullets start flying past your head.

This is a case of a super rich guy and his hired help seeking thrills and attempting to prove how bad-ass they are. Well guess what, Mother Nature kicked them aside casually and now they are trying to preen and posture that yeah they're really still bad-asses, you just don't understand etc etc.

I have been in hurricanes but not by choice. I have never been off Cape Hattaras in a winter storm and instead of thinking I should shut my pie-hole, I think a lot of people would be wiser to follow my example

Commanders choices

Leave now and get ass raped by a front

Leave tomorrow and just have regular intercourse in between two fronts followed by ass rape by the second front

Leave day after tomorrow and have anal on the beach in Hatteras inlet

Sounds like Commanders nailed it to me

Anyone who jumps because a router told them to jump deserves what they get.

 

[Boxorox]

I observed a trend over the years, to remove any aspect of sailing from sailing.

Furlers-check.

Electric winches-check.

Autopilot-check

No heeling condomarans-check

Let's get that ugly mast out of the middle of the salon-check

I agree... At some point why not do the obvious and remove mast and sails altogether? It's the logical endpoint. Then actual sailors will determine the market, and the condo-buyers can have their separate party barge market.

embrace diversity...

there are now sailboats for every kind of sailor - not just the kind of sailor you are

why should all sailboats be built to appeal to you?

GB owners are sailors? Seriously?

Watch Clean's pimping video on the owners. One of the cutie wives talks with pride on her J105 accomplishments.

If you pull some of the old marketing materials you could reach the conclusion that Gunboat is really nothing more than a MacGregor on steroids... fast, light, go anywhere with the whole family... Now you can have a wider and faster MacGregor in any paint combination at less than 200 times the original cult(relabled Tribe) cost.

THAT is disruptive!

 

[Wess]

Clean,

Generally avoiding this (the 2) circle jerk thread(s) but will drop a line to note my thanks for the write-up. Some useful bits in there to add to those from the various offline conversations.

Certainly different challenges in taking 18 wheelers and porsches along that route.

Did Jon/CB actually say they were going for the mainsail dump or is that your speculation? Wondered if they just tried going deep and "feathering" while sheeted. Did they say it was Jon's first reaction to dump? When you wrote he was fighting the helm it makes it sound like he could not get it turned down deep (at which point he maybe would dump). If so this sort of suggests it was not a gybe that took the rig down.

Can relate to the "how quickly" comments. Once the call is made and given the location, weather and owner being aboard, I think anyone with a ticket immediately has to make the call, these things take on a life of their own.

Anyway, thanks for posting it.

We now return you to your regular posers and bashing show.

Cheers,

Wess

 

[rumfustian]

With all this talk of rescues at sea we should thank the man/engineer who set out to do the impossible and achieved it....

Igor Sikorsky

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/Igor_Sikorsky.php

You forgot somebody:

Frank Piasecki:

http://www.piasecki.com/frank.php

The great thing is, it doesn't matter if you're on a $3M yacht, or something you bought off eBay, or some crap you hammered together yourself. It doesn't matter if you're a professional captain on an oceangoing vessel, or someone who's never been at sea before in a 15' aluminum skiff.

If you are in trouble, and they know about it, the USCG (and many others around the world) will come to your rescue. Anyone can question actions taken by crew and captains after the fact but these folks are hero's every day and night throughout the year....

https://www.facebook.com/AIRSTATVC?fref=photo

John

 

[Marinatrix447]

@ Mr. Matthews... indeed whirly-birds

Where would the military, offshore oil industry, out of luck sailors and now with AI drone versions soon coming… all the other niche roles served be without these incredible machines.

?

Handle with care though, if you think mega do$$ars million buck luxury glass topped glam Cat’s are tricky-dicky…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

Meanwhile thanks Mr. Clean for the final chapter of this sorry tale.

Me, myself I…. thinks that Keb’ should have the last word on this….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It2QOSUeQVk